Is Geoff in a cult? He doesn't seem to know!

From time to time we mosey on down to the Road to Recovery cult group's (Plymouth franchise) website to see what the latest offerings might be, and indeed we're rarely disappointed by the high quality of dross which emerges almost uniquely from this collective. You cannot imagine therefore our surprise (and even distress) to discover that one of its members is not quite sure whether they are in a cult or not! Now generally speaking R2R members are pretty damn clear about who and what they are. After all they are reminded most eloquently from time to time by their erstwhile (or has he been reinstated? Maybe someone's lent him a pair of braces!) leader Wayne P (he who suffers from “falling down trouser” syndrome) ie. that their group stands at the very “heart of AA”, and that all the other groups in the area are actually crap! Oops sorry!... Or as they more diplomatically put it these latter (ie. AA members) practice the “Beano” version of the programme whilst the R2R gang use the Big Book method (although no one has quite worked out how the 'do exactly what your sponsor tells you' bit fits into this schema). Now of course we could give you the short (form) response to Geoff's (we suspect) mostly rhetorical question: Is he in a cult? The answer, of course, is yes. But not wishing to short-change our readers, and because this hardly seems like a satisfactory response to such a “genuine” enquiry, we will elaborate further. Firstly we will refer you to the numerous entries elsewhere on the site (both in the Stop Press section and also the Area news section (South West). Here you will find a detailed listing of the activities of this group over the last few years. Now we're not going to bore you with a review of these (life is too short after all ) but the highlights include: sponsorship idolatry, interference on prescribed medication issues (despite the disclaimer on the R2R website – this itself part of an ever increasing list of rebuttals to challenges made by local AA members to this cult group's conduct. It is interesting to note here that not another group in the area (or indeed the region) seems to find it necessary to issue such defences. Can't think why! How can a group be so misunderstood?), and that's not to mention (but we will anyway) Jon F and Alexis K's little performance at conference where they attempted to bully the General Secretary (see An Incident at Conference). Now how sober is that! We could add interference in personal relationships, jobs, finances, dress code and so on but we're not going to! The list, as they say, goes on (almost) ad infinitum …. in other words - just another bog standard cult group. But finally, of course, Geoff is not a member of a cult – How do you know, we hear you ask (in a chorus)? Because “he usually doesn't think so”! Doh!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS. By the way Geoff if you are going to quote the traditions do TRY to get them right. Tradition Four (to which you refer) does NOT say “..... which itself can operate as individually as it likes, as long as it does not affect AA as a whole”. It actually says: “Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.”

PPS Oh nearly forgot! The answer to your question (long form): Yes you are in a cult group

The use of the Lord's Prayer in AA meetings.....

“…... or why should we be so surprised when cult groups fail to abide by the traditions (which they largely do) when we ourselves so blithely ignore them?

“Tradition 3. Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation.”

The AA Preamble:

“Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.

The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.

Copyright © The AA Grapevine, Inc.”

(our emphases)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lords_prayer

Whilst not claiming that a Wikipedia entry may be regarded necessarily as a definitive source it does seem quite evident that the Lord's Prayer is in fact Christian in origin and forms a central part of Christian practice. From this there follow some quite serious implications (if taken together with the above tradition and preamble), which suggest that any group that uses such a prayer demonstrates an outside affiliation and therefore (and according to that tradition) may not even call itself an AA group. Its members may hold whatever views, beliefs etc they like (individually) but even if every member of the group were a practising Christian (of whatever denomination) this group would still be in breach of this tradition. Moreover the prayer presents a set of ethical precepts (and concepts) which may be quite alien to any non-Christian attendees and although a moral review is a central component of the recovery programme (together with some indicated categories) there is no suggestion that such an appraisal should necessarily comply with a particular religious tradition (eg. as outlined in this prayer). Finally, although AA and its programme are undeniably derived (in part) from this tradition it could equally be argued that Christianity itself is based upon necessarily “pagan” origins. Whereabouts in the time line therefore does AA establish finally its foundations? In practical terms, and given the present public debate about the supposed “religiosity” of AA (and its possible negative impact on AA attendance), it is probably not very helpful for the membership (collectively) to engage in any practices which clearly have a primarily “religious” (and denominational) component - rather it would be better to focus on those that may be regarded as essentially “spiritual” (and which would be inclusive of all religions and philosophies).

Again referring to the above source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

and in particular the following:

“Spirituality can refer to an ultimate or an alleged immaterial reality;[1] an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of his/her being; or the “deepest values and meanings by which people live.”[2] Spiritual practices, including meditation, prayer and contemplation, are intended to develop an individual's inner life; spiritual experience includes that of connectedness with a larger reality, yielding a more comprehensive self; with other individuals or the human community; with nature or the cosmos; or with the divine realm.[3] Spirituality is often experienced as a source of inspiration or orientation in life.[4] It can encompass belief in immaterial realities or experiences of the immanent or transcendent nature of the world.”

None of the above definitions come into conflict with AA's traditions and taken together form an inclusive approach which avoids altogether any problems of affiliation (religious or otherwise).”

Think on that!

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

(PS Our usual thanks to this correspondent)

South East Region (GB) Annual General Meeting & Conscience

Well we should all be thinking (with gratitude) of those fine boys and girls who have already trudged the Road of Happy Destiny to Burgess Hill on this damp and foggy November morn to attend the South East Region Annual General Meeting and Conscience. Generally speaking such events pass by almost unnoticed by the fellowship at large but today we think the occasion is worthy of some modest comment. Indeed (or so we are told) there are a couple of items on the agenda which should be of interest to all AA members who are concerned about the current state of the fellowship in Great Britain, and have an interest, moreover, in where we might be heading in the distant and then not so distant future.

Firstly there is to be some discussion on the subject of what are referred to as “alternative groups” operating within AA in the South East region (and elsewhere). Now we know that some AA members have a tendency to come over all coy at the merest suggestion of any “controversy” within the fellowship (and would rather bury their heads in the sand and suffocate than face what is placed directly before them!) but we'll go for the “call a spade a spade” option and refer to them as “cult groups”. There! That wasn't so painful was it? It would seem this debate has been prompted by representatives of at least three intergroups that have been experiencing “problems” with CULT groups in their respective areas. South East Region itself is currently made up of 10 intergroups (as follows):

Brighton Area

East Kent
East Sussex
Mid Surrey
North East Surrey
Northdown
Solent
Southdown
West Kent
West Sussex

Of these we have received reports of cult activity (and groups) in at least six. We're pretty sure that if we looked really closely we'd find cult activity in every single IG. Perhaps during the course of the meeting some more of these will come out of the closet!

Secondly (or firstly – we don't have the AGM agenda to hand), and of greater interest perhaps (but directly related to the aforementioned), there will be some discussion of the minority report which has been submitted to the 2012 AA Conference (GB). This is entitled: "To Alcoholics Anonymous from Alcoholics Anonymous - A call for moral inventory and leadership in A.A.".

In summary this comprises the following:

“This document comprises an analytical and critical survey of the Fellowship in 2011, discussing the complex dynamics surrounding current events occurring in the USA, UK and Canada and relating these to past events and to AA Traditions and Concepts.

The discussion begins with two examples of active leadership, one by Bill W. in the 1940s, the other by a committee in Santa Monica California USA, in 1958; it then moves on to include current events. The outcome exposes a hazardous departure from Tradition, serious and growing internal divisions and public concerns. It also exposes a widespread and hazardous misconception in the application of A.A. Traditions. And a situation where neither A.A. Tradition, nor General Warranties of Conference are withstanding in today’s fellowship. This causes us to feel duty bound to place this as a minority report before the UK General Service Conference 2012.

Background

The grounds for submission of a minority report;

The principle of anonymity upheld.

1) The conference procedures are given in the AA Service Handbook for Great Britain section 10-3, 10-4. This can be accessed online at the UK GSO website:

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/members/index.cfm?PageID=98&DocumentTypeID=21

Concept V explains the criteria and reasons for sending a minority report.

A minority report can be sent by any AA members, at any level in the service structure from A.A. group to Conference.

Concept V states that all minorities should be encouraged to file minority reports whenever they feel that a majority is in considerable error. That they should charge themselves with the actual duty to file a minority report if they consider the issue to be such a grave one that it could affect A.A. as a whole. The main function of a minority report is to protect against the making of a grave error and to restrain those in authority from unjust uses of their power. The well heard minority is therefore our chief protection against an uninformed, misinformed, hasty or angry majority.

The Conference steering committee will decide whether to put the contents of the report and any questions arising from it to conference for discussion.

2) “Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.” (Tradition 12)

It is AA Tradition that the names of those who make submissions of topics /questions to conference are kept confidential. The same principle of anonymity applies to minority reports. It also applies to officially published AA pamphlets and books, the authors are not accredited except for a few titles by Bill W. The names of authors of the report are not accredited since this, according to AA Tradition is irrelevant, the subject matter of the report is what is important. It was co-authored by a number of AA members residing in the UK.

In fellowship”

[Apparently the above has now been circulated to every region in Great Britain shortly to be followed no doubt by distribution to their respective intergroups. Indeed some intergroups are proposing to further disseminate the report to all of their constituent groups so important do they regard its implications for the future of the fellowship in this country (and elsewhere). A number of particularly enthusiastic supporters have even mailed copies to every area in the US and Canada (incidentally under the Traditions this is not only entirely appropriate but even required given the nature and scope of the problem under discussion)].

Finally, of course, a copy can be downloaded here

We trust that you will make the effort to read it – and then take action!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Prescribed medication issues

(extracts from I-Say – Grapevine online forum)

“Medications and AA

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2011-10-06 23:38.

I was on drugs when I joined AA and knew folks who talked like taking any drug, even aspirin, was tantamount to not staying sober. I did not feel I had to agree. I think that part of why AA worked for me was AA people are ordinary folks and non professional and because of this I felt free to only worry about what I could grasp as being true and/or helpful that they shared about such as the 12 steps and all that.

I already knew from experience that it was a very bad idea to take any homespun advice about going off my psychiatric drugs.

I did eventually taper off of the drugs with the help and support of several doctors. I was criticized for that because gossip had it I did not have the support of a doctor. It was true that the idea was controversial among my doctors and the busybodies who knew that were supposed to stay out of that outside controversy too.”

“Getting Off the Roller Coaster

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2011-09-20 15:31.

I just read this article in this month's Grapevine. It always scares me when AA's are told to go off their medications. I am a dual diagnosis with a diagnosis that, like my alcoholism, there is no cure for and will never go away. Thank God I have a sponsor who knows that this is an outside issue, and the tradition that states we have no opinions on outside issues, and always tells me to talk to my doctor.”

“Getting Off the Roller Coaster

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2011-10-03 10:43.

I, too, have a bipolar type II depression and anxiety disorders in addition to my alcoholism. I once had a member of AA tell me that Step 2 was my problem. That God was all or nothing and hinted that I needed medication because I hadn't fully "come to believe." I was devastated but admittedly I was also living in fear of my mental disorders. This fear proved that I did need to focus on steps 2 and 3 more than I was but I do not think that it means I don't need my meds.

The most confusing part of have a dual-diagnosis is that both of them share the same symptoms (anxiety, depression, obsessive thinking, highs and lows of mood, problems with interpersonal and work relationships, etc.) I used to find myself confused and asking "Is this my alcoholism or my bipolar?"

Fortunately, I now have a sponsor who understands what I am going through (my last one did not and told me I didn't need to go to counseling because I was too focused on myself as it was. Her answer was more service work at a time that I couldn't even get myself to take a shower on most days. I no longer resent her - she just didn't get it and she also didn't adhere to the Tradition of having no opinions on outside issues.)

I have learned that if I know I am practising the principles of the program in all of my affairs and I still feel depressed or anxious then it is my bipolar and I need to call my doctor about my meds. And honestly, I can't work my program very well unless my meds are working well first.

In my experience, clinical depression affects my mental and physical abilities to take the action needed to work my program. If I had diabetes and didn't take insulin when needed and went into a diabetic coma, guess what? I wouldn't be able to take the action needed to work my program either.

I can no more "will" myself out of depression than I could "will" my body to produce the proper amount of insulin. Who would tell a diabetic, "Well, if you really had faith in God then you wouldn't need those insulin shots." That is ludicrous!

Ah, but now I feel I am treading on giving my opinion on outside issues so I will end my comment here :)”

“I couldn't agree more

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2011-10-07 15:46.

Thank you for your post, it's well said and comprehensive. I can't stay sober if I don't treat my bipolar disorder and the hardest part is that some days the symptoms of bipolar disorder mimic that of alcoholism. Let's not even talk about how I react to trigger's of trauma. I've spent 12 years without a drink, switching meds, therapists, doctors and sponsors. But I always come back to my sponsor that understands about mental issues, and I now have a therapist who helps me look at MY BARRIERS to the step in the Big Book. He actually pulls it off the shelf and makes me read it out loud and then we discuss what that means to me today. I am so grateful for him. I gave my Psychiatrist the AA Pamphlet 11 - Medication and Other Drugs, as it suggests right in the pamphlet to do, and she was surprised, as none of her patients who she saw had ever done so. I had a major breakdown 6 months ago, but I didn't drink and I didn't drive my car off the road, because AA taught me how to ask for help. I have been in a dual diagnosis treatment center 3-5 days a week at a daytime outpatient program and often find myself educating the staff and other dual-diagnosed people about the principles of the AA program they like to write down on our treatment plans as treatment for alcoholism. It seems most of the clinicians I come across do not have too much knowledge about the true spiritual nature of alcoholism. Many clinicians still talk about medicating the other disorders with alcohol and drugs but don't really understand the spiritual depravity that alcoholics are experiencing because of the alcoholism, drinking or dry. The issue is a very important one that needs to continue to be discussed in forum's just like this. The founder's wrote the very prophetic "more will be revealed" and "we only know a little". The reason this topic is so hot is because there are better medicines to help the "manic-depressive, type of alcoholic, about whom a whole chapter could be written" It was the Grapevine that helped to form the traditions and be a cohesive voice for the fellowship and it seems that this is EXACTLY the forum we should continue to have this type of discussions.

Thank you and all of AA”

“The Roller Coaster article

Submitted on Sun, 2011-09-25 15:28.

I too just listened to this story and found myself getting concerned that the author was taking himself off meds. This is my experience: I suffer from both depression and anxiety. Someone told me as I was coming into recovery that my symptoms were likely caused by alcohol. This always sat under my consciousness and as I came closer to my 2nd year of recovery I decided that I should get off my meds as "they were a crutch" and "of course I could be sober on them but could I do sobriety without relying on them?" Dangerous thinking. I asked my doctor to move me toward stopping the medication. She put me on a program of decreasing doses. I got down to lowest dose and found myself getting depressed and anxious contemplating the next step: nothing. I talked to my sponsor who assured me that many people face need for medications in sobriety for diabetes, high blood pressure, and a host of other ailments-- did I now think that depression wasn't a valid ailment? I asked Higher Power to direct my thinking. I "remembered" that I come from a lineage of depression and that my paternal grandmother killed herself while committed to mental institution and my father had suffered from deep depression and numerous suicide attempts. So I called my doctor and relayed my fears and discomfort. I went back to the next to last dose. So yes, my dose is lower but I still take a medication that helps me keep my brain chemicals in balance. That was almost four years ago. Facing any diseases in addition to alcoholism doesn't mean we are not doing sobriety right. I am grateful for AA and that I am taking care of my body that I had abused for years before recovery.”

Comment: The role of prescribed medication is not only an outside issue for AA as such but also remains beyond the competence of most AA members (ie. apart from those who are additionally in possession of recognised and relevant medical qualifications). Otherwise it is very much the case – MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Some more on sponsorship (and the decline in fellowship numbers) from I-Say

“I get so tired and sometimes amused by those who feel their way is the only way to work the program and others ideas are simply not worthy of consideration. When I came to the fellowship, thank God there were those around me who offered love and understanding despite of my early fumbling words. They allowed me to say what I felt at the time and helped me find a way to stay sober without the constant criticisms I see and hear from those who are so sure theirs is the "only" way to stop drinking. I was allowed to "grow" at a pace instead of being told how to do things another’s way which may have gotten me drunk. I was told by an "old timer" to get honest, I WAS honest at that time and was sad to hear that the same"oldtimer" died drunk doing things his way and not listening to anyone but his own voice. Thank God for those who listen and allow others to grow at Gods pace, not theirs.”

“Sponsorship is not a marriage!

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2011-10-07 22:11.

I was told to ask the Higher Power to draw my spirit to the person that was to teach me. I do not need or want a supervisor. My choices on my own didn't work out so well. But that prayer did. I needed someone to teach me how to live and work the steps. That is how I sponsor also. We can change sponsors whenever we want...even without talking to the one we are leaving if that is how we choose to do it. Just stop calling and go to different meetings.

Running someone else's life is inappropriate and has nothing to do with a sponsor's role in AA. My sponsor has 31 years and I am coming up on 22. I ask her advice from time to time, I do my 5th step with her and we pray together. She has done the same with me on occasion.”

“24 hrs a day, growth, "the course"

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2011-08-23 10:35.

I had not realized that there were so many practices by AA groups driving people away from AA, nor that anyone had conducted a world-wide study involving detailed interviews with those who came in and left as to what those practices were. Our traditions suggest that if I am unhappy with my local group's practices, I can call a group conscience to see if others share my concerns; and if they do, we can change how we do things, from what is read before meeting, to what is read during meeting, and whether we hold hands and say the Lord's Prayer at the end of the meeting. If the group does not agree with my views on the way a meeting should be conducted, I can vote with my feet. Personally, I am not a fan of chanting, holding hands, or the 24-hours a day book, and take every opportunity to share at meetings that I do not believe in a "god of anyone's understanding," but I recite the Serenity Prayer, the Lord's Prayer, and the Prayer of St. Francis when I find myself back at the center of a universe revolving around me. I might suggest reading the Traditions and a bit of other AA history to anyone who thinks they have "the answer" for themselves or AA”.

“My Sponsor is very hard on me.

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2011-08-04 00:32.

My Sponsor watches me constantly in meetings, she tells me not to wear certain clothes, not to get in my purse, yells at me all the time. She says I can't trust my thinking or my emotions. She will not let me clean up after meetings or put my name on the newcomer's phone list. I try so hard not to make a mistake,but I always do something wrong. I am on the second step and I keep asking her to help me move forward and work/do the 4th step. She tells me no! I have 14 months of sobriety and I feel worse everyday...I do not want to drink. Thank god for that!!! I am afraid to call anyone else in the program because I do not want to gossip or say anything that would hurt her or anyone else. I am so isolated...what should I do?

I hope everyone here is ok...today!”

[Reply to above]

“My sponsor is hard on me

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2011-08-05 06:42.

Where does it say you need a sponsor to take the steps? If you can read and write well enough to share here, you can read well enough to use the Big Book. (USE, not just read)

Dump that so called sponsor before you get drunk.”

“RE: Growth of Alcoholics Anonymous

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2011-10-04 04:47.

Our chairman of the board of trustees recently wrote in The FINAL REPORT NORTHEAST REGIONAL FORUM [US], concerning the membership numbers: counting numbers is challenging, they have been developed through scientific based surveys and are certainly valid for comparison from one year to the next. He writes that when we look at longer period of time, the lack of growth in membership is clear. Even though it is clear that our fellowship has lost over half a million members worldwide since 1992, and is stagnant at about two million, most AA members come up with reasons that satisfy any concern. I find that most alcoholics are good at denial or justification. The truth is that Alcoholics Anonymous has changed at the group level over the past three decades. Unless we reverse these changes we will continue to spin our wheels, failing hundreds of thousands of suffering alcoholics every year. We have 12 steps, 12 traditions, 12 concepts, and 6 warranties. The BLUNDERS we have made in AA number about 10. To correct these mistakes would cost us nothing in real cash. Our pride is what we must give up. The alcoholic EGO is powerful. I believe it is AA's greatest enemy. The mistakes (all which are reversible) have been covered on I-SAY over the past two years. I will not repeat them here. ENOUGH ALREADY!! ANONYMOUS”

Comment: Think on that!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Sponsorship? We think not

(extract from the Grapevine forum – I-Say)

“Sponsorship

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2011-10-07 05:40.

The sponsorship concept today, added to the incessant chanting, is one of the main reasons AA has become viewed by many as a cult. The general public sees us as a cult because that is what we have become. There are groups where members are told to get a sponsor before you leave the meeting today. Some groups actually assign sponsors to newcomers. Imagine an alcoholic telling another alcoholic what to do! And we have AA members who take a few classes and become AA guru's both in and outside the meetings. One of the very first impressions I had of AA was the sense of freedom I felt. There were no demands, no requirements at all. I was not even ordered to "keep coming back". I was allowed to listen and and become a sober member of AA without any fanfare. In Alcoholics Anonymous we all come together as absolute equals, newcomers, and oldtimers. We need the newcomer as much as he needs us. There is no system of hierarchy or patriarchy. But anyone who attends the AA meeting of today knows that this is only a theory. Today's AA is a system of preachers, teachers, advisors, counselors and guides. Many are under the umbrella of sponsorship. Let's lose that title.”

Comment: Perhaps now would be a good time to stop shooting ourselves in the foot!

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Childish and grandiose – or merely narcissistic? A cult member profile

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Individuals with this Cluster B personality disorder have an excessive sense of how important they are. They demand and expect to be admired and praised by others and are limited in their capacity to appreciate others' perspectives.

Diagnostic criteria for 301.81 Narcissistic Personality Disorder

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behaviour), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favourable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth Edition, Copyright 1994 American Psychiatric Association.