See also Links and downloads
Friday, 31 August 2012
Thursday, 30 August 2012
San Francisco Bay area - "Nursery" groups
A
correspondent writes:
“Hi!
I am writing you from San Francisco, CA USA. I wanted to tell you what I know about AA cults in the SF Bay Area.
In San Francisco, all "high noon" meetings revolve around one insane guy who sponsors everyone, marries newcomers and publicly humiliates anyone who is on meds.
In nearby counties, Clancy I. has extended his reach. Los Angeles Pacific Group transplants have started several meetings in the Bay Area - all under the "Nursery" banner. They are, as some have alluded to on other sites, actively "seeding" and taking over other meetings.
I have left AA due to this dangerous cult called Nursery.
If you would like me to send you a list of cult meetings in the SF Bay area, I can do that, at least a list of meetings that I know of.
Thank you so much for your continued work. The Internet is really putting the spotlight on the abuses going on in AA at this time. I think we are just at the tip of the iceberg.
Thanks,
Anonymous”
I am writing you from San Francisco, CA USA. I wanted to tell you what I know about AA cults in the SF Bay Area.
In San Francisco, all "high noon" meetings revolve around one insane guy who sponsors everyone, marries newcomers and publicly humiliates anyone who is on meds.
In nearby counties, Clancy I. has extended his reach. Los Angeles Pacific Group transplants have started several meetings in the Bay Area - all under the "Nursery" banner. They are, as some have alluded to on other sites, actively "seeding" and taking over other meetings.
I have left AA due to this dangerous cult called Nursery.
If you would like me to send you a list of cult meetings in the SF Bay area, I can do that, at least a list of meetings that I know of.
Thank you so much for your continued work. The Internet is really putting the spotlight on the abuses going on in AA at this time. I think we are just at the tip of the iceberg.
Thanks,
Anonymous”
and,
as promised:
“Hello!
Below is a list of
official and unofficial Nursery (Pacific Group) meetings in the San
Francisco Bay Area. The 'official" nursery groups are all listed
as such. The rest of the meetings listed below have either been
started by Nursery members or have been taken over by Nursery
members. Nursery members are in the process of taking over or
starting meetings in nearby counties and in San Francisco proper, but
I have not listed them here due to their transitional nature. If I
remember or come across any more of their meetings, I will email you.
I do not know if Nursery
was started by Clancy I. I do know that the leaders of the nursery
meetings and the core group of men who go to these meetings are
either sponsored or grand-sponsored by Clancy I. Their wives have set
up their own meetings as well. Let me know if I can be of any more
help.
Nursery Meetings Contra
Costa/Alameda County, California, USA
Sunday:
7PM
12 Steppers St. Luke's Lutheran Church 2491 San Miguel Drive. Walnut
Creek, CA
Monday:
7:30
Nursery #2 Men's Stag 451 Moraga Way (St Mark's Ch) Orinda, CA,
7:45
Nursery #4 Men's Stag 955 Moraga Rd (Methodist Ch) Rm5 upstairs
Lafayette, CA
8PM
Nursery #5 Walnut Creek Presbyterian Church 3rd Floor 1801 La Cassie
Ave. Walnut Creek, CA
Tuesday:
8:15 Nursery #1 303
Hudson St at Manila Ave Oakland, CA
Wednesday:
6PM
Beginner's Workshop 2491 San Miguel Dr (St Luke's Church) Walnut
Creek, CA
8PM
Nursery #3 2491 San Miguel Dr (St Luke's Church) Walnut Creek CA
7:45PM
Lamorinda Men's 10 Irwin Way (Fellowship Hall) Orinda, CA
Thursday:
7pm
Diablo Group 1550 Diablo Rd (St Timothy's) Danville, CA
7:30
Room To Grow 242 W. Linda Mesa Ave (Danville Women's Club) Danville,
CA
Friday:
6:30pm
Friday Night Young Peoples 222 W El Pintado (Pres Church) Rm 100
Danville, CA
Saturday:
6:30
Saturday Night Young Peoples 193 Mayhew Way (AA meeting room) Walnut
Creek, CA”
Comment:
We're always interested to hear more about such developments!
Cheerio
The
Fellas (Friends
of Alcoholics Anonymous)
PS
Our thanks to our correspondent
Wednesday, 29 August 2012
Tuesday, 28 August 2012
Cult groups (update and addition to GB Where to Find)
YORKSHIRE
Halifax
Primary Purpose Group
Saturday
10.30 The Ebenezer Center, St. James Road
[Contact:
comes under Ebenezer Centre Tel: 01422 342654]
(outside
affiliation with the Primary Purpose movement)
Harrogate Back To Basics Meeting
Wednesday
6:30 Harrogate Baptist Church. Victoria Avenue,
[Contact:
comes under Baptist Church]
(described
in the AA directory as a Big Book multi-meeting group but affiliated
with the Back to Basics movement – a US separately incorporated
“not for profit” outside enterprise)
Cheerio
The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)
Cheerio
The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)
Monday, 27 August 2012
Sunday, 26 August 2012
Conference Questions (2012) forum discussion (contd)
Question
2:
“Would
the Fellowship ask itself the question: “Are there too many
meetings and not enough groups?”
Background
Pamphlet
‘The AA Group’
The
Home Group: Heartbeat of AA
Consider
the contribution to the carrying of the message, financial and
practical implications when deliberating each question.”
Extracts
“In
reply to …...., some useful information can be found in the
minority report which has been mentioned in a number of posts
elsewhere on this forum and on the website on which it has been
posted. The report can be found by placing “AA minority report
2012” into a search engine. Other sites which also come up in the
search, aagrapevine.org and
the site that is helping people leave AA, may also provide some
information.
The
lack of information is a problem. AA is dealing with what are
apparent local situations when in fact they are being induced by a
number of globally organized outside organizations. For example, the
“Emotional Sobriety” workshop flyer that was picked up at one of the AA
meetings in my area is identical to ones which were distributed in
London,(GB) and in Perth, Australia; The only difference are the
dates, times and venues. The organization is based in the USA.
(Examples of these flyers can be found displayed on the website which
provides a link to the minority report)
The
“Emotional Sobriety” organization is not mentioned in the
minority report but it can be found by placing the terms “stepping
ahead into emotional sobriety” into a search engine. The 12 step
guide that it produces is a workbook. Whenever I look at the
workbook’s content I think of the plight of June W’s flatmate:
“I
am concerned that we are not reaching people who cannot read well or
cannot read at all. I am new to the program and making my way through
the Steps. I struggle to understand the "Twelve and Twelve,"
even with a college degree and help from my sponsor and other AAs.
Meanwhile, my roommate, also newly sober and with a grade school
education, can't make any sense of her Step workbook and is about to
give up. How many people do we lose this way?....... (June W.
Gaithersburg, Md. “Dear Grapevine, Shut Out” (Extract) A.A.
Grapevine November 2010) http://www.aagrapevine.org/
When
I read things in the workbook such as “G.O.D. × 3 = The
“Conversion” Process” or “1° (G.O.D × 3) × 2.5× 8 × 30 =
42.5”, I can’t make sense of it either.
I
think initially there needs to be a greater awareness within the
fellowship and then it is a matter for an active individual and group
conscience at all levels. A silent majority is no majority at all.
Contributions
to the AA Grapevine “I Say” forums from these guardians of AA Tradition among others,
give me hope that AA still does have a good future, but it is now
time for the reservists to come up and fortify the front line. In
their groups, intergroups and at all levels.
TWELVE
STEP WORK: “SPONSORS”
“Beware
of the institutionalized outside sponsorship system that pry on you
instead of pray for you. When all else fails try A.A.” (Anonymous
on Tue, 2011-11-29 00:23.)
“Beware
of "pigeon hunters";those very eager to latch on to a
newcomer. Tho usually well intentioned are often far off the AA
beam.” (Anonymous on Tue, 2011-10-11 09:07.)
MAGAZINE
DISCUSSION TOPIC: “THANK YOU”
“There
is no place for labels in A.A.
The
outside sponsorship system around A.A. lacks humility and there
victims are keep away from A.A friends of the whole a true fellowship
not a followsit.” (Anonymous on Wed, 2011-11-16 11:34.)
SUGGEST
A TOPIC: “IS THE OUTSIDE SPONSORSHIP SYSTEM KILLING AA?”
“Is
the outside sponsorship system killing A.A through there
personalities - Personality is simply another persons reality not
always Gods. Does the outside system undermined the 3 pertinent ideas
of A.A. itself? LOUD YES Does the outside system undermined the
promises of A.A. to intuitively handle situations? LOUD YES Is the
outside system miss used inside A.A - Take a closer look victims.”
(Anonymous on Sun, 2012-02-05 09:05.)
SUGGEST
A TOPIC: “RE: MEMBERSHIP DECLINE - BIG BOOK SALES”
Quote
"I wonder if the "requirements" thrown at newcomers
turns them off?" The Outside sponsorship system in A.A.
UNDERMINES A.A's ideas!!!
How?
Read A.A's 3 "PERTINENT" ideas. The Outside sponsorship
system in A.A. UNDERMINES Gods promises to A.A's
How?
You will intuitively be able to handle situations. The outside
sponsorship system has been around a long time and so has evil”
(Anonymous on Thu, 2012-02-02 17:53) http://www.aagrapevine.org/”
Cheerio
The
Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)
Saturday, 25 August 2012
Friday, 24 August 2012
A rock as a sponsor? The pros and cons.....
Yes …
the humble rock..... Who would have thought it! But we have to
confess to a certain lack of originality here. The first time the
concept of a Pet Rock surfaced was in the 1970's in California (now there's a
surprise!). But (as with all works of genius) sometimes the full
implications and ramifications are not always immediately apparent,
and it was only after some considerable meditation upon the subject
that it struck us there were considerable advantages to be gained by
having a rock as a sponsor as opposed to a human power - especially
of the cult variety. Here are but a few:
RELIABILITY
Firstly -
rocks are remarkably reliable. They hardly ever fail to be where
they're supposed to be. Take Ayers Rock in Australia for example.
It's been around for absolutely ages and can always be found in
almost precisely the same spot. But can you say the same for a human
sponsor? They are always moving here and there, maybe doing a bit of
'ducking and diving' … you can never find them when you want to …
and when you don't want to … guess what ….. they always turn up
don't they! Of course this kind of rock is not particularly mobile
and it would be very much the case of Mohammed going to the mountain
etc! But then there's always a down side isn't there? That's life
though ain't it!
CONSISTENCY
Again
rocks come out well ahead on consistency. Of course there are always
going to be a few exceptions (like pumice etc) but by-and-large your
granitic types tend to hang around in pretty much the same form for
aeons. Diamonds in particular are well known for their durability. So
come on girls! Not only can they be your best friend but they can
also be your sponsor too!
SOBRIETY
Have you
ever come across a rock that's worse the wear for drink? We rest our
case!
SERENITY
Again …
have you ever seen an angry rock or one that's lost its temper (we
don't count legendary rocks by the way – as in the Odyssey)! Again
we rest ….
THEY DON'T
GIVE ADVICE
In all of
recorded history there has not been one single (credible) instance of
a rock that answered back or gave unsolicited advice. Go and talk to
your rock and you can be guaranteed a receptive silence for as long
as you want!
PATIENCE
Rocks are
well renowned for their generally patient and forbearing nature. No
matter how long you want to rant, blame, moan or generally go into
one........a rock will NEVER walk away!
HONESTY
A rock
never tells lies (well except for Fools' Gold of course – but then
the lie actually exists in the eye of the beholder!)
CONFIDENTIALITY
You'll
never find a rock gossiping or telling tales (not even under the
guise of “checking with their sponsor” ….. well obviously their
sponsor would be another rock of course – and the mother lode
probably! So it wouldn't really count!)
DEFECTS OF
CHARACTER GENERALLY
Of course
all rocks have their FAULTS (geddit!) but by and large you won't find
one that's selfish or envious.... or even greedy! Yep! You'd have to go a long way even to find a lustful rock of any description!
PORTABILITY
With the
obvious exception of the above and other assorted sizeable aggregates
(eg. the Alps, K2 etc) rocks can be portable and even worn around
your neck …. mind you it sometimes feels like that when you've got
a cult sponsor! Of course we would be more than happy to supply
(through our subsidiary “Rocks to Go” - a not-for-profit
corporation) an array of rubble set in some most attractive clasps
and settings. For the more discerning amongst our clientèle we can
even provide special custom leather bound limited editions which can
be shown off to great effect when attending meetings. We also
provide (and included in the price) a full set of instructions on how
to use your rock: workbooks, guides and the like (between you and
us there's no real need for any of this stuff but the presentation
pack looks so much better when it's filled with all this accessory
junk.....plus you can in fact pick up a rock anywhere! But for some
reason people feel happier when they've paid an arm and a leg for their stone!
One born every day eh! But good business for us)
SHAPES AND
SIZES
Naturally
rocks come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, colours, textures and
densities ….... their geomorphology really is quite outstanding.
Some even glow in the dark! Now you can't do better than that can
you? Be honest! Who can say the same with a cult sponsor! But they
all look the same (that fixed manic grin as they chant in unison:
we're happy, joyous and free.... suited and booted and ALWAYS BUT
ALWAYS on their BESTEST ever behaviour – or in public at least (who
said performance art was dead!) ....... STRAIGHT out of 'Clones R Us'....
Nah! Not even in the same league! With a rock you get something of
substance, something original, something unique, something durable
….. and …... excellent company at a ROCK concert!
And so on
ad infinitum. We could extol the virtues of the rock till the cows
come home! But don't take our word for it! Take the plunge! We dare
you! Get out there and find yourself a rock! You'll never look back –
we GUARANTEE it!
BUT
REMEMBER! A ROCK IS FOR LIFE AND NOT JUST FOR CHRISTMAS!
Cheerio
The Fellas
(Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous …. and …... all naturally
occurring, homogeneous inorganic solid substances having a definite
chemical composition and characteristic crystalline structure,
colour, and hardness ...... everywhere!)
Thursday, 23 August 2012
Tuesday, 21 August 2012
Monday, 20 August 2012
A RECOVERY GRATITUDE LIST (definitely NOT cult-sponsor approved!)
From
one of our correspondents:
“I haven’t had a drink today, and I haven’t been to a cult meeting today.
I am free
of alcohol. I am free of cult-sponsor/cult-group co-dependency. (Nice
one!)
I can live
my own life without constantly having to defer to an abusive and
unaccountable self-appointed puffed-up person called a sponsor who
attends a cult meeting.
I can
practice the program in a way that makes sense to me – just the
Big Book and AA suggestions.
I can
choose for myself what meetings I go to, not have a cult-sponsor
dictate to me what meetings I must go to.
As the Big
Book suggests (page 47) , I can choose my own understanding of a
Higher Power without have one imposed upon me by a cult-sponsor who
may have a sick, fanatical religious agenda (e.g. such as Potty Dotty
or David C Icons).
As the Big
Book suggests (page 47) , I can also have my own understanding of
spiritual expressions, without having to adopt a cult-sponsor’s
understanding; which may be tainted by a his/her own sectarian and
whacky fundamentalist religion.
As the Big
Book suggests I can follow my conscience. I have a free will and a
free conscience, and I can be a free and independent sober person.
I can
think freely, and not be told what I must think or feel by a
cult-sponsor who is clearly mentally deranged (eg such as “Happy
Dennis” and others).
In
meetings I can share whatever I need to in order to help myself,
without having to please a cult-sponsor or fit into his group-think.
I can
choose to have a partner/girl-friend, without needing to ask
permission from a cult-sponsor who can’t actually make a close
intimate loving relationship himself (eg, such as Happy Dennis,
David C Icons, or David B).
I can take
whatever job I want, without the job having to be approved by a
cult-sponsor, who is only interested in recruitment/attendance
numbers at his cult home group.
I can make
my own decisions in life, and not become “infantilized” by having
all my life decisions approved by a cult-sponsor. I can grow up into
a responsible adult person.
I am free
to make mistakes and learn from them.. and I don't need to drink on
them either.
I can
experience all emotions, express them, process them properly, and
learn from them.
I can grow
emotionally, psychologically and socially. I don’t have to end up
emotionally frigid, isolated or childish. (eg like Happy Dennis, or
David C Icons)
I
can find, and have, genuine
friends, not mindless and insincere cult cronies who are only my
“friend” provided I repeat their sponsor-approved mantras,
slogans and group-think activities.
I don’t
have to spend money travelling to far away cult-meetings to do chairs
etc, because the local meetings are not cult-sponsor approved or
considered good enough.
I don’t
have excessive phone bills caused by having to ring at least 2
newcomers every day.
I don’t
have to suffer the rudeness and arrogance of a cult-sponsor who
shouts and lectures down the phone. Or who slams the phone down if I
ring a few minutes late. Or who engages in similar angry sick
practices, which he calls “recovery” or even “spirituality”
but the rest of the sane real world would call bullying and abuse.
I don’t
have to worry about doing a long list of made up daily tasks
(so-called suggestions), none of which, I have found, are actually
necessary for sobriety.
I don’t
have to waste money travelling to far away cult “conventions” and
pay an exorbitant attendance fee. I can go to local Intergroup
organised conventions that follow the Traditions.
I don’t
have to squander money in pricey coffee bars and restaurants for the
“meeting after the meeting”. I can choose not to go to the café
after the meeting if I don’t want to go. Or go if I feel like it.
I am free to choose either option.
If I am
ill, I can take whatever medication recommended by a qualified
doctor, and take it without scruple. I don’t have to ask an
arrogant crazy deluded and unqualified cult-sponsor (e.g. Happy
Dennis and others) whether I can take life saving medicine.
I can
share my step 5 with whoever I want, inside or outside of AA. It is
my business, nobody else’s.
I don’t
have my confidences betrayed by a cult-sponsor who talks about my
personal issues with others behind my back, sometimes under the guise
of “seeking guidance from his sponsor”.
If I need the help of a counsellor, or psychiatrist or therapist of any kind, I am free to take such help, as AA recommends. I don't have my recovery damaged by a cult-sponsor dictating to me that he is the only source of truth, wisdom and advice.
In step 12, I can help others in a way that is spontaneous and genuine, and from the heart; and not have to tick boxes or follow some tedious sponsor-dictated quota.
I don’t
have a hypocrite cult-sponsor who lectures others on humility and his
so-called “marvellous” road to recovery, and demands high moral
standards from others; while behaving like a selfish and
irresponsible 'letch' in his own life (e.g. Mike Quinones, Wayne
P(antsdown), King Clancy the First, and other suchlike hypocrites).
If
I want to, I can explore what ALL the religions of the world have to
say and make use of what they have to offer, or not as the case may
be. I don't have to follow a list of approved books made up by a
cult-sponsor who tries to steer his sponsees towards his own dour
brand of religion. ( e.g. David C Icons and his so-called "helpful
book" list).
I can listen to modern music and visit modern art galleries without a narrow minded cult-sponsor lecturing me about how "self-expression is not in accordance with the program" as he understands it.. (e.g. like David C Icons does)
I
can be sober, reasonably happy and enjoy true freedom, without
having a cult-sponsor.
Last, but
not least, I can go to a sauna if I want to. (I’ve never been to
one, but at least I have the option!). And I don’t need to be
afraid of meeting a homosexual, or anyone else, there, or anywhere. I
don’t have listen to, or be infected with the nasty, sanctimonious
bigotry of a cult-sponsor (like David C Icons for example)
All the
above.. and more... is my experience, not my opinion. Phew ! Yes,
an awful lot to be grateful for !!
FREEDOM
ROCKS!”
Cheerio
The Fellas
(Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)
PS Our
usual thanks
Sunday, 19 August 2012
Saturday, 18 August 2012
Derby City/Derbyshire IG – the missives fly thick and fast … and rather flimsily!
We've received various communications now on the subject of the ““Murky goings-on in Derbyshire” involving the current wrangle between some of the Derby City meetings and the respective intergroup. What we have so far managed to conclude from these is someone somewhere is telling rather large 'porky pies'! To date we haven't decided conclusively who is but when we do then you can be quite sure that the hammer will fall!
The latest
development in this saga however relates to a letter of complaint
(purportedly) sent by Derbyshire NHS to the Intergroup:
“The
contents of the letter is clear, alcoholic service users of the
Crisis team within Derbyshire have experienced extremely unhelpful
and very abusive behaviour at the aforementioned group [Derby City]
and the NHS are advising intergroup that they will no longer be
recommending that their service users go to this meeting.”
But in
response to a query from the Derby City meetings Derbyshire NHS
(Derby Crisis Intervention Team) responded thus (allegedly):
“Letter
from Mental Health Crisis Team boss [Richard Morrow]
Hi …..,
Thank you
for raising this with me earlier and the further information. I have
made some further enquiries today following on from our conversation
earlier.
I am going
to write a letter to the Intergroup PO Box address requesting that
someone contact me in relation to the letter that has reportedly
being sent from the team.
I will be
clearly stating that to my knowledge no communication has been sent
on behalf of the service and that any comments received should not be
considered the representative view of the Crisis Team or Derbyshire
Healthcare Foundation Trust and should be disregarded.
I will
further request that a copy be made available to me so that I can
raise with any potential source the upset and disharmony that this
can cause.
I will
send a copy to you via e-mail which you are free to retain and use as
you see fit.
I would
just like to add that if a member of my team has played any part in
the difficulties you and your group are currently experiencing then
you have my unreserved apology.
Any
comments of this nature are unsolicited and in my opinion
inappropriate and do not reflect the opinions of myself, my team or
indeed Derbyshire Healthcare Foundation Trust.
Sincerest
regards,
Derby City
and County South CRHTT”
(It should
be noted that in neither instance were original copies of the above
communications provided hence the use of the terms “purportedly”
and “allegedly”)
Furthermore
an allegation has been made that the General Service Office (York)
instigated a series of “mystery calls to the [local] helpline”
and that on the basis of these “confirmed the unsuitability of our
members [ie. of Derby City group] for service”.
Apparently
when GSO was queried about this by a representative of the Derby City
group they provided the following reply (or as reported):
“The
general secretary tell me that GSO have in fact never so much as
received a complaint about us in 15 years, let alone opened a QA
[Quality Assurance] department.......GSO have promised me a letter
commenting on claims made as to their actions in this matter.”
In
connection with the (alleged) suspension of Derby City group members
from participation in the telephone responders' service the following
policy statement applies (as set out by Derbyshire Intergroup):
"The
group nominates the following members who are being sponsored into
telephone service, either as a responder (permanent or reserve)
and/or a 12 Stepper. All people listed must be regular attenders of
THIS group (that means they attend this group most weeks). By putting
their names on the form, the group is saying that they believe these
people are able to carry the message of recovery to newcomers under
the guidelines, and that they are reliable in performing service."
and:
“The
forms are available via DIG and NLIG; so by definition any group in
contact with their appropriate area intergroup has access to the form
and therefore into the formal service mechanism. There are no rules,
written or otherwise, that exclude any specific group or members from
formal service. A group would simply need to attend intergroup to
collect a form, complete it and return it. The accusation that "the
cult dupe "in charge of" the helpline is driving this
campaign. He has decreed that no-one who attends our meeting is ever
to be allowed to do helpline or 12-step work under any circumstances"
is simply untrue.”
and so it
continues...... so much for AA unity!
But it
would seem that we're not the only ones who are taking an interest in
what precisely is going on in Derbyshire AA. We've recently been
contacted by a reporter from the Derby Telegraph as follows:
“Hi
there,
I am a
reporter at the Derby Telegraph. I have just read the posting
http://aacultwatch.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/murky-goings-on-in-derbyshire-another.html
with interest.
If you
could keep in touch regarding anyone that may come forward with any
information regarding AA meetings in the area would it be possible to
see if they would be willing to come forward, anonymously if that is
how they feel most comfortable, to talk about their experiences.
Thanks
very much and hope to hear from you soon.”
Comment:
The above represents the shape of things to come. If Alcoholics
Anonymous is unwilling to put its house in order (and this sooner
rather than later!) then inevitably others will take action! If we
are unable to provide a safe environment for newcomers (and here we
are not referring solely to the situation in Derbyshire but
nationally) then there can be no other outcome than the referring
agencies will discontinue recommending us to their clients and
patients. If we cannot meet the absolute minimum standards of care
and respect for those who come to us for help then we really don't
deserve the trust of the society within which we operate. We
continue to receive reports concerning vulnerable members who have
committed suicide because of pressure placed upon them to desist the
use of prescribed medication (the most recent in the Bournemouth
area). The controlling, intrusive and abusive 'sponsorship' styles
characteristic of the cult members who operate within AA are still
very much in evidence. These practices simply extend licence to
those 'control freaks/narcissists' who wish to 'play God' whilst
simultaneously rendering their sponsees (or rather 'victims')
impotent, and even regressed into an almost infantile state of
dependency on their human 'Higher Power'. These departures from AA
principles are a blight on the fellowship and if left unchecked will
lead without doubt to its dissolution.
And where
does the responsibility for all this rest? Take a look in the mirror
…..
Cheers
The Fellas
(Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)
PS Our
usual thanks to our various correspondents
Friday, 17 August 2012
Thursday, 16 August 2012
The Primary Purpose Big Book Study Cult … or As Joe Sees It! (contd)
Extract
from our forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch
under thread: “TLM in Alanon UK?”
“Here's the first post about the
problem I have with Joe McQ's portrayal of the relationship between
early A.A. and the Oxford group. The beginnings of A.A. are complex
because A.A. began simultaneously both in New York and Akron. It is
noted in the foreword to 'Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers' that a
joint biography of the Co-founders was planned, but this proved
impractical; therefore the biography of Dr. Bob and the development
of A.A. in the Midwest was published in 'Dr. Bob and the Good
Oldtimers' and Bill W's biography and the development of A.A. in New
York was published in 'Pass It On'. The development of AA in the
Midwest around Akron is only half the story. In this post I'll focus
on a couple of issues I have with Joe McQ's version of events and the
development of A.A. in New York.
Joe McQ writes very simply about the
Oxford Group as though it was a successful and positive influence;
Bill W got his ideas for the AA program from the Oxford Group in
Akron.
''Buchman was immediately successful.
People who followed this procedure were changed. The Oxford groups
grew and spread. Realizing that these five basic principles ' these
tenets ' were the foundation of Christianity (and other religions
worldwide), Buchman called his movement 'First Century Christian
Fellowship'' (Carry this message p14)
“After visiting with the Oxford
Group members in Akron, Bill went back to New York with a better
understanding of their program. And he went back with knowledge of
the powerful dynamics he had learned in Akron: the problem, the
solution, and the program of action'' (Carry This Message p18)
“Bill expanded the Oxford Group's
tenets, and this is what he, Dr. Bob Smith, and the 'first one
hundred' got sober on. Although they got sober in the Oxford Groups,
Bill felt that alcoholics needed to change more drastically than
other members of the Oxford Groups did. He realized the tenets needed
to be adapted and the meetings made separate for alcoholics. When he
wrote the steps in 1938, Bill Wilson did a lot more than just put
them together. He found a language alcoholics were more likely to
respond to.”(Carry This Message p 19)
The Oxford Group wasn't as successful
as Joe portrays, it mostly failed in sobering up alcoholics. The
relationship between the Oxford Group and early AA wasn't as simple,
nor was it as positive. Joe doesn't mention the Oxford Group's
negative side of coercion or the development of A.A. in New York. It
can be seen from the extracts from Conference Approved literature
below that Bill W. and Ebby T. were with the Oxford Group in New
York. Bill W started going to the Oxford Group meetings in December
1934 in New York. The first pre-formative AA meetings in New York
were held in 1935 at Bill W's house in Clinton Street. Perhaps if
these meetings had not been suppressed by the Oxford Group in 1935,
Bill might have had more success with sobering up alcoholics in the
early days in New York. The alcoholics attending the Oxford Group
Calvary mission in New York were instructed by the Oxford Group not
to attend the meetings at Bill's house. After about six months of
early failures in trying to sober up alcoholics in New York by
preaching the Oxford Group message, Bill changed his approach on the
advice of psychiatrist Dr. Silkworth. He tried Dr. Silkworth's
approach shortly after with Dr. Bob when he made a trip to Akron. It
is clear that Bill W. was not getting a better understanding of the
Oxford Group program and the “powerful dynamics he had learned in
Akron” as Joe McQ insinuates, but that he was carrying his own
developing A.A. program to Dr. Bob in Akron. At this time, it was
based on Bill's previous six month experience of trying to sober up
alcoholics in New York combined with the advice gained from Dr.
Silkworth. The following are extracts from AA Conference approved literature:
“After Bill's release from Towns on
December 18, he and Lois started attending Oxford Group meetings at
Calvary House, adjacent to Calvary Episcopal Church.” (Pass It On
p127)
“In those early months of 1935,
Bill Wilson preached the Oxford Group message to anybody who would
listen. He spent long hours at Calvary Mission and at Towns, where
Dr. Silkworth, at the risk of his reputation, gave Bill permission to
talk with some of the patients.” (Pass It On p 131)
“My new Oxford Group friends (the
religious group in which Ebby had made his, first, but not final
recovery) objected to the idea of alcoholism as an illness, so I had
quit talking about the allergy 'plus- the- obsession. I wanted the
approval of these new friends, and in trying to be humble and
helpful, I was neither. Slowly I learned, as most of us do, that when
ego gets in the way it blocks communication” (Bill W. The Language
of the Heart p 247)
“In that fall of 1935, a weekly
meeting took shape in our Brooklyn parlour. In spite of much failure,
a really solid group finally developed. There was first Henry P., and
there was Fitz M., both out of Towns Hospital. Following them, more
began to make real recoveries.” (Bill W. Alcoholics Anonymous Comes
Of Age p74)
"While Lois later admitted that
their success rate was low during the 1935-36 period at Clinton
Street, she pointed out that many of the alcoholics Bill worked with
during that time did recover later on. In other words, Lois said, the
seeds of sobriety were being planted, to take root slowly."
(Pass It On Page 166)
“Tension began to develop between
the main group at Calvary Church and Bill's struggling band of
alcoholics. The Oxford Group leaders resented the fact Bill was
holding separate meetings for alcoholics at Clinton Street. They
criticized his work with the alcoholics as being 'narrow and
divisive' The alcoholics, on the other hand, felt they needed these
special meetings because many of the nonalcoholic O.G. members did
not understand them. Jack Smith, one of Sam Shoemaker's assistants,
disapproved of Bill's work and finally brought the conflict out into
the open. In an informal talk at a Sunday Oxford Group gathering, he
made references to special meetings 'held surreptitiously behind Mrs.
Jones's barn.' The atmosphere of the Oxford Group then became
'slightly chilly' toward the Wilsons. Near the end of 1935, the
alcoholics living at Calvary Mission were instructed not to attend
the meetings at Clinton Street. 'This not only hurt us but left us
disappointed in the groups' leadership,' Lois remembered.1"
(Pass It On p169)
“1. This incident led Sam Shoemaker
to apologize to Bill later, after he himself had broken with the
Oxford Group in 1941. Shoemaker wrote: 'If you ever write the story
of A.A.'s early connection with Calvary, I think it ought to be said
in all honesty that we were coached in the feeling that you were off
on your own spur, trying to do something by yourself, and out of the
mainstream of the work. You got your inspiration from those early
days, but you didn't get much encouragement from any of us and for my
own part in that stupid desire to control the Spirit, as he
manifested Himself in individual people like you, I am heartily sorry
and ashamed.” (Footnote: Pass It On page 178)
“After
some six months of violent exertion with scores of alcoholics which I
found at a nearby mission and Towns Hospital, it began to look like
the Oxford Groupers were right. I hadn't sobered up anybody.” (Bill
W. 'A fragment of A.A. History: Origin of the Twelve Steps, AA
Grapevine July 1953, The Language of the Heart p 198)
“There
was, though, one bright spot. My sponsor Ebbie, still clung
precariously to his newfound sobriety. What was the reason for all
these fiascos? If Ebbie and I could achieve sobriety, why couldn't
all the rest find it too? Some of those we'd worked on certainly
wanted to get well. We speculated day and night why nothing much had
happened to them. Maybe they couldn't stand the spiritual pace of the
Oxford Group's four absolutes of honesty, purity, unselfishness, and
love. In fact some of the alcoholics declared that this was the
trouble. The aggressive pressure put upon them to get good overnight
would make them fly high as geese for a few weeks and then flop
dismally. They complained too of another form of 'coercion '
something the Oxford Groupers called 'guidance for others.' A 'team'
composed of nonalcoholic Groupers would sit down with an alcoholic
and after 'quiet time' would come up with precise instructions as to
how the alcoholic should run his own life. As grateful as we were to
our O.G. friends, this was sometimes tough to take. It obviously had
something to do with the wholesale skidding that went on.” (Bill W.
'A fragment of A.A. History: Origin of the Twelve Steps' AA Grapevine
July 1953, The Language of the Heart page 199)
“Just
before leaving for Akron, Dr. Silkworth had given me a great piece of
advice. Without it A.A. might never have been born. 'Look, Bill,' he
had said 'you're having nothing but failure because you are preaching
at these alcoholics. You are talking to them about the Oxford Group
precepts of being absolutely honest, absolutely pure, absolutely
unselfish, and absolutely loving. This is a very big order. Then you
top it off by harping on about this mysterious spiritual experience
of yours. No wonder they point to their finger to their heads and go
out and get drunk. Why don't you turn your strategy the other way
around? Aren't you the very fellow who once showed me that book by
the psychologist James which says that deflation at great depth is
the foundation of most spiritual experiences? Have you forgotten that
Dr. Carl Jung in Zurich told a certain alcoholic, the one who later
helped sober up your friend Ebby, that his only hope of salvation was
a spiritual experience? No, Bill you have got the cart before the
horse. You've got to deflate these people first. So give them the
medical business, and give it to them hard. Pour it right into them
about the obsession that condemns them to drink and the physical
sensitivity or allergy of the body that condemns them to go mad or
die if they keep on drinking. Coming from an alcoholic, one alcoholic
talking to another, maybe that will crack those tough egos deep down.
Only then can you begin to try out your other medicine, the ethical
principles you have picked up from the Oxford Groups. “ (Bill W.
Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age pp 67- 68)
“Shortly after this history-making
conversation, I found myself in Akron, Ohio, on a business venture
which promptly collapsed. Alone in the town, I was scared to death of
getting drunk. I was no longer a teacher or a preacher, I was an
alcoholic who knew that he needed another alcoholic, as much as that
one could possibly need me. Driven by that urge, I was soon face to
face with Dr. Bob. It was at once evident that Dr. Bob knew more of
spiritual things than I did. He also had been in touch with the
Oxford Groupers at Akron. But somehow he simply couldn't get sober.
Following Dr. Silkworth's advice, I used the medical sledgehammer. I
told him what alcoholism was and just how fatal it could be.
Apparently this did something to Dr. Bob, On June 10, 1935, he
sobered up, never to drink again. When, in 1939, Dr. Bob's story
first appeared in the book, Alcoholic
Anonymous, he put one paragraph of it in
italics. Speaking of me, he said: "Of far
more importance was the fact that he was the first living human with
whom I had ever talked, who knew what be was talking about in regard
to alcoholism from actual experience".”
(Bill
W. 'A fragment of A.A. History: Origin of the Twelve Steps' AA
Grapevine July 1953, The Language of the Heart pp 199-200)
“The Oxford
Groupers had clearly shown us what to do. And, just as importantly,
we had also learned what not to do as far as alcoholics were
concerned. We found that certain of their ideas and attitudes simply
could not be sold to alcoholics. For example, drinkers would not take
pressure in any form, excepting from John Barleycorn himself. They
always had to be led, not pushed. They would not stand for the rather
aggressive evangelism of the Oxford Groups. And they would not accept
the principle of 'team guidance' for their own personal lives. It was
too authoritarian for them. In other respects, too, we found when
first contacted most alcoholics just wanted to find sobriety, nothing
else. They clung to their other defects, letting go only little by
little.“ (Bill W. Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age p 74)
“One of the first insights Dr. Bob
and I shared was that all true communication must be founded on
mutual need. Never could we talk down to anyone, certainly not a
fellow alcoholic. We saw that each sponsor would have to humbly admit
his own needs as clearly as those of his prospect. Here was the
foundation for AA's Twelfth Step to recovery, the Step in which we
carry the message.” (Bill W. 'The Language of the Heart' The
Language of the Heart p 247)
“Until the middle of 1937 we in New
York had been working alongside the Oxford Groups. But in the latter
part of that year we most reluctantly parted company with these great
friends. Naturally enough they did not think too highly of our
objective, limited as it was to alcoholics.” (Bill W. Alcoholics
Anonymous Comes Of Age p 74)
“Bill had friends in the Oxford
Group who understood his view of the situation. One of them was John
Ryder, a New York advertising executive who knew Bill in the days of
the Calvary Mission. Ryder made these comments about Bill's
separation from the Oxford Group: 'I was, or felt, quite close to
Bill Wilson in the early days before A.A. was started. Herb Wallace,
a close teammate of mine, spent much time with Bill, caused him to
take a public speaking course at the Downtown Athletic Club; but I
think the 'group' proper disowned Bill when he proceeded on his
guidance to create a special group for A.A.'s. At that time, if you
were associated with the 'group,' your guidance seemed to be of
questionable worth unless okayed by Sam Shoemaker or Frankie Buchman
or one of his accredited representatives.” (Pass It On p173-174)
“The Oxford Group disapproved of
the alcoholics' concentration on their problem to the exclusion of
other group concerns. Lois even said that the 'Oxford Group kind of
kicked us out,' that she and Bill were not considered 'maximum' by
the groupers. ('Maximum' was used by the Oxford Group to define the
expected degree of commitment to group activities.)” (Pass It On
p174)
“1937 Bill and the New York
alcoholics separate from Oxford Group. More than 40 alcoholics are
now staying sober.” (Pass It On Page 407)
“....but by counting everybody who
seemed to have found sobriety in New York and Akron, they concluded
that more than 40 alcoholics were staying dry as a result of the
program!” (Pass It On page 178)
In 1938, Frank Amos, an assistant to
John D. Rockefeller Jr., made several reports to Rockefeller about the
newly forming A.A. In one report he put the membership as follows: "Of the 110 members then in the program, 70 were in the
Akron-Cleveland area, the report said" (Dr. Bob and the Good Old
Timers p135) (This leaves 40 members in New York)
In 1939 Dr. Silkworth published a
medical paper in which he stated:'These ex-alcoholic men and women
number about one hundred at present. One Group is scattered along the
Atlantic seaboard with New York as a center. Another and somewhat
larger body is located in the Middle West' (Dr. W.D Silkworth M.D. (A New Approach to Psychotherapy in Chronic Alcoholism, Journal
Lancet, July 1939; Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, appendix
E:a, p 303)
To sum up, the first problem that I
have with Joe McQ's account of early AA history is his insinuation
that Bill got his ideas for the A.A. program from the Oxford Group in
Akron, and as Joe put it, 'Bill went back to New York with a better
understanding of their program.' It can be seen from the above that
this statement should be the other way around. Bill took his own
developing A.A. program to Akron and sobered up Dr. Bob, who couldn't
stay sober with the Oxford Group until he met Bill. Secondly, it can
be seen from the above that Joe McQ's reference to 'the first one
hundred' 'got sober in the Oxford Groups' is simplistic. At the time
the book Alcoholics Anonymous was published in 1939, the New York
group had already been separated from the Oxford Group for some two
years. It is unlikely that all the 'first one hundred' got sober with
the Oxford groups. Those of the 'first one hundred' who joined the
New York group after 1937 would have got sober in this group rather
than the Oxford Groups. “
Cheerio
Comment: It's interesting what you
can learn just by reading a bit of AA (Conference Approved) literature isn't it!
The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics
Anonymous)
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