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Showing posts with label prescribed medication. Show all posts
Showing posts with label prescribed medication. Show all posts

Friday, 14 April 2017

Purley (cult) meetings .. the medication issue …. again!


Here we go … again! Will they never learn?? 
 
We were recently contacted by a member from the Wimbledon area who told us that the Purley cult group is sending “out 'reps' to other meetings telling members that they are not sober if they take medication such as anti depressants.” Apparently the issue is going to be raised at the local intergroup (London South West .. so good luck with that!). 

 Our correspondent continues:
There was a recent incident of one girl who was told to stop her anti depressant by one of these 'reps'. As a result of coming off her prescribed medication this girl tried to take her own life and is now recovering in hospital and does not want to go to AA. In fact her mother has contacted the General Service Office and seeking further advice. This just cannot be allowed to happen and is NOT AA.

The[re] is a leaflet on AA and medication which clearly states we do not give advice but there is a growing number of people who are doing just that and not adhering to the traditions and principles of AA. More worryingly they are blaming others who have expressed concerns and spreading malicious gossip. And as we know gossip is a killer. The yellow card is being broken time and many people are not feeling safe in these Wimbledon meetings.”

Does any of this sound familiar? .. 'Fraid so... The 'nutters' are still out there carrying the 'disease'. For their edification (if no one else's) here is the relevant (conference approved) leaflet: The A.A. Member—Medications and Other Drugs 

(You've got to wonder if any of these jokers can actually read! Maybe sign language?? Two fingered salute perhaps!)


Cheers


The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)


PS Our correspondent wanted to remain anonymous not only for the usual reasons (ie. traditions)....but also concern about 'reprisals'. So not only 'nutters' but thugs as well... business as usual!

Monday, 18 July 2016

Whatever happened to Paul ?


A recent email:

I've been following your useful blog and I would like to make some contribution as I agree with your general aims. The “cult” as you describe it, is spreading throughout AA now and causing division, suffering and acrimony wherever it goes. It reminds me of the story in the Big Book about the alcoholic raging through other people's lives like a tornado wreaking havoc, but being oblivious to the harm done to others in the process. I would like to tell you about my friend “Paul” (for anonymity I will not use his real name), who attended AA meetings a number of years ago. Apart from being an addict and alcoholic, he was diagnosed with schizophrenia. To help him control and cope with this condition he needed to take anti-psychotic medication and other treatments. He attended AA meetings in Surrey, I think these were in or near Hampton-Kingston area. He rang me up one day in great distress saying that his AA sponsor had told him he must come off all medication or he could not work the AA 12 step program, and he would be cold-shouldered by people at his home group. I don't know the name of his sponsor, but I do know that he was not a qualified Doctor. I think he was an actor. Anyway, Paul was convinced he needed to come off his medications in order to get sober. I tried to point out to him that this advice was not in accord with AA guidelines and was very dangerous. But the trouble was I was the only voice telling him this. He was attending a meeting where every single person was saying the same thing this sponsor was saying and he was convinced they must be right because of strength of numbers. He was also advised to follow a non AA website which promoted the same message. It seemed to me that he was attending a cult meeting as there was no room for dissent, it was all group speak dictated by this sponsor who's only qualifications were to act, or sell cars, or whatever it was he did for a living. Paul came off his medications and a few days later was sectioned into a mental hospital. Although Paul was a man in his 30's his parents took responsibility for him and gave him a new phone and changed his number, and he was told to avoid AA by his family. His family became very anti-AA. They moved him to stay with relatives in another part of the country to keep him away from that sponsor and the endless phone calls from cult followers telling him not to be “selfish” and do what his sponsor said, and have a life beyond all dreams... a false promise if ever there was given the particulars and circumstances. I lost touch with him after that.. I often wonder what happened to him. I hope he is well. This episode highlights the need for AA members to follow the Traditions and guidelines of AA which state quite clearly that no AA member should be playing Doctor. And even if a person is a Doctor, they should not be practising their profession within AA as AA should be forever non-professional. By the way, I have known AA members who have to take anti-psychotic medication and they can stay sober for many years and lead productive lives. So the cult doctrine about medication is untrue in my experience. And if people with serious mental problems are told they cannot get sober in AA because they have to stop taking their medications then these groups are effectively discriminating against the mentally ill. It brings AA into disrepute and into conflict with medicine, society and basic human rights. I think these cult meetings live in a bubble of their own delusions and self-justifications, and are incapable of seeing themselves as others see them. Just like the tornado alcoholic in the Big Book. It is like a criminal mindset, where the ends justify the means no matter what harm is done to others. Such a tragedy AA is heading in that direction. Regards L.”

Comment: Couldn't agree more!

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS Our thanks to our correspondent

Saturday, 14 June 2014

Questions and Answers on Sponsorship (contd)


The AA (General Service conference approved) booklet: Questions and Answers on Sponsorship 

Extract: 

Should a sponsor recommend hospitalization? 

The important thing to remember is that hospitalization is not part of the A.A. program and that a doctor, not a sponsor, is the person who should say whether it is required. Experienced sponsors are careful not to set themselves up as substitutes for doctors in dealing with any phase of alcoholism.

An A.A. oldtimer offers this reminder: Hospitalization or other professional care given to a newcomer “does not in any way lessen the responsibility of the A.A. member to carry the message in the best way possible, and to furnish good sponsorship. It is not good A.A. simply to dump an alcoholic into the lap of others because we do not have enough time, or because the alcoholic is troublesome and demanding. Most of us recall with gratitude the enduring patience and great kindness older members showed us when we were new ourselves.””

(our emphases)

Comment: Again AA's advice runs directly contrary to that given by cult sponsors who will generally endeavour to interfere in EVERY aspect of their victims' (sponsees') lives. Pressure is frequently exerted upon new members to stop using prescribed medication and withdraw from other forms of therapy (counselling etc) under the guise that the former represents “Alcohol in solid form” whilst the latter approach may focus on purely psychological grounds rather than 'spiritual', the two apparently being necessarily mutually exclusive (?). The cult's approach in this area (as in many others) entirely ignores the advice on the subject given in the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous' (and elsewhere in AA conference approved literature. See The AA Member – Medications and other Drugs. For the sometimes fatal consequences of cult advice see Dual Recovery Anonymous' section on Medications and Recovery and also here): 

Now about health: A body badly burned by alcohol does not often recover overnight nor do twisted thinking and depression vanish in a twinkling. We are convinced that a spiritual mode of living is a most powerful health restorative. We, who have recovered from serious drinking, are miracles of mental health. But we have seen remarkable transformations in our bodies. Hardly one of our crowd now shows any mark of dissipation. 

But this does not mean that we disregard human health measures. God has abundantly supplied this world with fine doctors, psychologists, and practitioners of various kinds. Do not hesitate to take your health problems to such persons. Most of them give freely of themselves, that their fellows may enjoy sound minds and bodies. Try to remember that though God has wrought miracles among us, we should never belittle a good doctor or psychiatrist. Their services are often indispensable in treating a newcomer and in following his case afterward.” (Alcoholics Anonymous, Ch 9, The Family Afterward, p. 133)

(our emphases)

Remember: a sponsor is NOT ESSENTIAL to recovery. And NO sponsorship is better by far than BAD sponsorship!

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

(to be continued)

Wednesday, 28 May 2014

Bournemouth Road to Recovery suicide


Some time ago we received some correspondence concerning the above group. We were requested to delay reporting this out of deference to the feelings of family and friends. The communication has been edited to preserve anonymity. These events took place in July/August 2012


Hi,

I am writing this in connection with the recent suicide of a member of the Bournemouth Road to Recovery group.

... threw himself out of a tree with a rope around his neck on Monday 30th July. His neck was broken and I believe his spinal cord was severed. He was kept alive until Friday 3rd August at which point his ventilator was switched off.

I visited him ….... to pay my respects and say goodbye.....

Since his death I have learned that …...... was a member of  the Bournemouth Road to Recovery group and was sponsored by a certain '….......', …....., sometime sponsee of Wayne P and a person I should like to avoid meeting ever again.

....'s parents …... are mystified by his death - "He'd stopped drinking, his life seemed to be getting better. He'd even written a new song and joined a choir...." - and want to know about his associates and connections in AA. They understood that …... was a member of what they described as "a breakaway group in AA."

I don't want these kind and decent people to get caught in crossfire between the Roadies and 'mainstream' AA. They are stunned by grief. I believe that in time they may also start to feel angry, as indeed I am beginning to..

Meanwhile [his sponsor] is said to be on holiday.

I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions or observations you may have to give me. …... was a friend, a decent guy and about as vulnerable as any chronic alcoholic has  a right to be.

In fellowship.

....”


Our response:

Dear …...

Thank you for your mail.

We're sorry to hear about the death of your friend. 

From our perspective it's always very difficult to discern the precise reasons why somebody decides to take their own life. In one sense there's nothing 'reasonable' about it. To go against one's own instinct to survive can only be the result of an enormous internal conflict.  What we can say however is that the kind of environment offered by cult groups like Bournemouth Road to Recovery is probably the worst possible for people such as these.  Their anti prescribed medication/anti counselling/dogma driven approach offers nothing to the more vulnerable members of our society.  From your description of …. it might be that he was suffering from depression and was unable to communicate easily what he was going through.  To exacerbate the situation further  (as you may be aware) any such 'negative' expression is much frowned upon in cult circles.  The opportunities for him to talk about these concerns may have been very limited indeed.  We quite understand your concern for his family and their feelings. They are after all the ones left behind to try and come to terms with his death.  It is interesting to note however that they are seeking some kind of explanation as to why he should take his own life, and moreover seem to suspect already that this may be in some way linked to his participation in the above group  We would certainly encourage them to pursue their enquiries especially if these should throw some light on the circumstances that resulted in his death.

We can of course raise the matter on the site (suitably edited) which may elicit further information if you feel that would be appropriate

Cheers

The Fellas”



Dear Fellas,

Thanks for prompt reply.

I want these fundamentalist goons 'outed' for what they are.

I recall my own slog through the first three years of sobriety, the emotional instability and the taboo against saying how you really feel. I was helped by good people who told me things would probably get better with time and continued use of AA. I guess that's pretty much what I said to my poor friend.

He made a bid for freedom from the road [Bournemouth Road to Recovery] a couple of months back, …........, then stepped back onto the road. I have found this out only since he died. It's not my practice to draw folk away from the road.

The trouble is that vulnerable souls - and who doesn't fit that description in early times? - experience a crisis of confidence and conscience, caught between the hard line and 'the easier, softer way'. We are told we don't know what's best for us and the road equips us with (seemingly) strong, charismatic sponsors to tell us. The word 'cult' is appropriate.

As to the circumstances which resulted in …....'s death I have pieced some of them together. …....... I believe he was also on anti depressant (or even anti psychotic) medication. …....... several 'roadies' from …...'s home group ….. seem very shocked and I suspect the event may even discredit the group in the eyes of some members.

My problem is this. I would like …....'s inquest, funeral and memorial service to pass before any information is disseminated on Cult Watch. This wish is in the spirit of protecting …....'s family at this stage …......

Again I would value your perspective on this.

Best wishes,

...”


Comment: None required. We'll let the facts speak for themselves

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Saturday, 15 June 2013

The Big Book Study Movement


Final Report: Leinster (Eire) Intergroup Sub-Committee (September 2008)





Source: Alcoholics Anonymous General Service Conference of Ireland
Alcoholics Anonymous News Sheet – update – Dec 2008/Jan 2009

Extracts:

No group or individual should deem themselves an authority on how to interpret the Big Book on behalf of others. The steps are suggested and experienced sponsors are wise enough not to give newcomers hard and fast directives. There are no authorities in AA and even self-appointed teachers have “feet of clay”.

Our knowledge of recovery has been received in the Fellowship through the experience of one Alcoholic sharing with another Alcoholic and it was not received on an instructive basis or in a classroom atmosphere”.

Many times we have heard an argument supported with one part of a tradition whilst the second part is completely ignored. This phenomenon seems to occur, quite often, in Tradition 4. “Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole. Autonomy seems to be used as an argument, to explain or defend, why a group ought to do what a certain member wants it to do”.

Sponsorship

In AA sponsor and sponsored meet as equals, just as Bill and Dr Bob did”.

The Internet and Website

Conference, (a collective Group Conscience of all the Groups in Ireland, both North and South) requested that there be only one website for Alcoholics Anonymous in Ireland and that the Groups, if they chose, would list the times, dates and places of meetings, as in the Directory, without the contact names and phone numbers, in the interest of unity. Conference felt that if Groups started to host their own websites [eg. The Road to Recovery (cult) group Plymouth], it might create competition between them and would dilute the very purpose of what was intended, which is simply to inform the public and their members, of where and when meeting [sic] are held”.

And finally:

Tradition 5 …..The unique ability of each AA to to identify himself with and bring recovery to the newcomer in no way depends upon his learning, eloquence or any special individual skills”.

(our emphases – in bold print)


Comment: As we've said before (see The Big Book Study Movement is outside of the Structure of Alcoholics Anonymous In Ireland) the General Service Conference of Ireland seems to be light years ahead of its GB equivalent. They have identified the problem, discussed it and evolved a clear strategy to deal with the issues raised. What a contrast they are with Great Britain's service structure which seems barely able to acknowledge that a problem exists at all let alone begin to respond to it! Ostrich-like they bury their heads in the sand in the hope that these dogmatists will just go away (see Minority Report 2013 and Primary Purpose/Back to Basics). We repeat our previous question to our “trusted servants” (??): Precisely how many newcomers have to suffer and die before clear action is taken to exclude these meetings (Primary Purpose, Back to Basics, Visions) from our fellowship? How long are AA members going to continue to inflate the egos (and the pocket books) of the sundry circuit speakers, Big Book 'experts' and other parasites by subscribing to their so-called 'workshops' and assorted 'study guides' together with all the other accessory junk they produce? In fact just when is “I AM RESPONSIBLE” going to be something more than a mere form of words to be mouthed meaninglessly at AA meetings?

Over to you

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS Our thanks to the member who obtained a copy of the newsletter from GSO Ireland

Monday, 18 February 2013

The Truth about Midtown


Screen shots from the original “The Truth About Midtown” site

 
The future of AA if we're not very very very careful!

It's already begun!

And who is responsible?

Over to you!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Sunday, 29 July 2012

Suicide …... the medication issue..... yet again!


From Ealing:

There have been 2 suicides in the fellowship recently, both of whom I knew personally. One being a friend of 15 years standing. Difficult stuff to come to terms with. Both had serious mental issues other than alcohol.”

......

“Regarding the 2 suicides. The first was a guy called ......., who was 28 years old and 3 1/2 years sober. He was a paranoid schizophrenic and needed medication. I was told by a few who knew him well that Happy Dennis sent this chap a text when he was a newcomer and told him to come off his medication. ......... had to spend some time in hospital because of this. He was very anti Cult and anti Dennis after that. He used to read the cultwatch website, and often talked about it in the coffee bar after the meeting. ….... I don't think his suicide was the direct result of the cult, although the cult did him no favours initially. He left a note saying he was just sick of his life, he couldn't silence the" voices" and took an overdose. His funeral was very well attended and his family were grateful that AA had helped him stay sober for the last 3 years of his life.

The other suicide was someone I have known for 15 years. He suffered from severe depression and needed anti-depressants. Unfortunately he felt that he was not "practising the program" by taking this medication in spite of the fact that many, including myself, told him that he must do as the doctors have told him, and that taking prescribed medication was not "a slip". However, the anti-medication culture in some meetings affected him. I know that he had stopped taking his medication prior to his suicide. He hung himself and leaves a wife and 2 children. I have no doubt that although this chap didn’t have a sponsor telling to come off medication, he was adversely affected by the guilt that some people try to induce around medication issues. His first meetings were Vision For You circa 1997, then he followed the Happy Destiny breakaway for a while until around 1999. He left them both a long time ago, but I think they left their ugly mark on him psychologically. His family did not want any AAs at his funeral. Very sad.”

And on a relatively – but only relatively – lighter note:

I thought you would like to hear Happy Dennis' latest words of wisdom. According to several sources ….... he says that.....

"given a choice between a relationship with a woman, and jumping into a pit of snakes, he would jump into a pit of snakes".

So, jumping for joy one minute - jumping into a pit of snakes the next....

Believe me …... if you had ever met this dangerous nutter, you would soon realize that no one in their right mind would ever want a relationship with this arrogant, goon-like over-elated, narcissistic control freak. Any self-respecting woman would keep him at arms length.”

Comment: The above clearly illustrates the importance of 'minding our own business' when it comes to medication issues. AA members are NOT qualified to issue advice on such matters and should leave these (diagnosis and treatment) in the hands of the professionals. The consequences otherwise are evident from the foregoing......



The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS Our thanks to our Ealing correspondents

Sunday, 29 January 2012

A Minority report (continued)(3)


A.A. is dealing with a new phenomenon, for which most are unprepared. It presents an extremely complex debate and it is a toxic cocktail of the following ingredients: Global internet communication; the outside influence of a very narrow minded, dishonest, fundamentalist Christian rendering of A.A.’s program and history; a generation of “elder statesmen” who have no experience of dealing with a serious problem in A.A; who also lack knowledge of A.A. history and the ability to apply Traditions and Concepts; and the majority of whom appear to see no threat in placing liberty above that of our common welfare.

This cocktail has produced not so much cult groups, but a collection of cult groups of various descriptions, which together amount to a neo-Oxford Group fundamentalist movement. These groups have international connections with figureheads as leaders: Joys of Recovery, (Detroit USA – London UK, David C.), Primary Purpose group of AA (Dallas), (global affiliation, Cliff B. Myers R., Chris R.), Back to Basics, (Global affiliation, Wally P.), Road to Recovery, Plymouth UK- Pacific Group USA (Wayne P- Clancy I).

The new dynamics to AA presented by outside published literature and global internet communication may have exposed a weakness in our service structure to which AA has yet to adapt. The speed and reach of electronic communication today means that the behaviour of one individual AA group, or a minority, can now have an enormous negative and permanent impact on the whole A.A. public relations. Moreover, this speed and reach of communication can give power driving figureheads a platform to influence AA, not only in their own locality, but internationally. With the reach and permanence of worldwide web, it is questionable whether the resultant damage to A.A. public relations and loss of public confidence caused by these groups is sustainable for the fellowship as a whole, if this is permitted to continue.

For example, The Joys of Recovery group (Detroit – London, David C.):
Extracts from the “Big Book Recovery” website hosted by a David C:

Counsellors, Psychiatrists http://bigbookrecovery.com/now_that.html#solid_alcohol
The general approach for the majority of cases is for us to discontinue seeing psychiatrists and counselors [sic] if you are seeing them for treatment of the symptoms of alcoholism eg [sic] alcoholic depression… … Also there are likely to be contradictions between the two courses of treatment. We chose between the two. If we chose to do the AA programme, we stopped seeing the counsellor/psychiatrist until we had done the first nine steps.......”

Alcohol In Solid Form http://bigbookrecovery.com/now_that.html#solid_alcohol
........Prescribed mood-altering drugs? Drugs that are mood altering (eg [sic] "antidepressants") are often prescribed for the symptoms of the alcoholism. This is true even when alcoholism is not named by the doctor as the condition for which he or she is prescribing the drugs; for example, many of us are diagnosed as having a variety different sorts of psychoses and types of depression, which turn out to be the symptoms of alcoholism … ... If they are prescribed for the symptoms of alcoholism, then they are to be considered as alcohol in solid form: we must be willing to come off these ‘chemical mood-changers’ … …We ask the doctor: ‘Would it be alright if I came off the drugs if I go to lots of AA meetings?’… … ... It is very important that if the programme is to be a substitute for these drugs then we really must follow all the suggestions of the programme.”

Sexual conduct http://bigbookrecovery.com/step_four.html#how_to
........Later on, as part of Step 5, we give an account of our secret thoughts to our sponsors. Many revealed things to our sponsors that we had never told anyone before. (This is applicable also to all our darkest thoughts, not just those of a sexual nature”)

Trust Our Sponsors http://bigbookrecovery.com/now_that.html#solid_alcohol
So it will be very difficult for us to trust in the programme and the Higher Power unless we can trust our sponsors first...”

But I’m doing the Programme and I’m still feeling down
http://bigbookrecovery.com/step_twelve.html#all_affairs
If you think you’re doing the programme and not feeling good, then we have good news for you. There is every chance that you’re wrong — you’re not doing the programme. The answer is to find out what it is you are doing that you shouldn’t; or what it is you are not doing that you should.”

Victims of the abusive sponsorship in London and Detroit share their experience with each other on an internet forum:

I was reflecting on when I first was recruited in to joys and I was thinking about how uncomfortable I felt. ………….I remember crying to my sponsor about the pain I was having and explain to her that I never felt my body freak out so much not even when I was in to partying and taking drugs as I did when I came in to joys and she was just starting to yell at me. I remember the first time she really screamed at me when I called to check in I was in my standing in my kitchen and I just recently dumped my ex boyfriend and he just moved out I felt I was moving forward in my life on to a healthy and higher road and then my sponsor screamed at me and I just felt like this behavior [sic] feels way more unhealthy then the what the boyfriend I just dumped did. I felt like she was just waiting for him to leave so I would be alone and she could yell at me and start the abusive and control cycle. I studied the cycle of abuse wheel in high-school and I think that describes perfectly my relationship with my joys sponsor there were definably honeymoon periods and tension building periods and then the terrible acting out phase. I remember I always felt extremely uncomfortable art [sic] the 4 joys meetings I attended weekly. Being on the outside now I can see that a lot of the things that I struggled with such as panic attacks were due to being in joys I don’t have those anymore. I have also realized why I was attracted so much to joys and that it did meet many of my unmet needs such as belonging friendship caring involvement and many many [sic] more. Now that I am out of the group I have to work harder to try and meet these needs and when I don’t I find myself missing joys.” (aacultwatch forum; subject entitled “Gut feelings”)

Another gradual change in their cult environment involved the persistent push for a greater commitment. It always had to be more, and soon the members felt overwhelmed and wondered if they could ever make it. Could they ever be pure enough? Could they ever reach enlightenment? Their leaders were the only proof that these standards were achievable. For me in joys was will I ever get done with 9 and when I get done with step 9 I will be happy. I have sence [sic] learned that being done with nine is really about accepting the cult belife [sic] system and passing it on. I felt even more inner torment when I was done 9 then I did befor.[sic] They created this false impression that once I got done step 9 life would be grand which was quite the oppiset,[sic] but it did apper [sic] that way on the outside. Cult leaders used various techniques to tighten their hold on the group. One of the more effective was scapegoating [sic]. One member would be publicly humiliated in front of the group. This created dread among the cultists because they never knew when it would be their turn and never wanted to be used as a negative example I have been the scapegoat at joys they tear you up in there shares. I have also played the role of tearing others up in there shares and trying to push them in a relapse when they wouldn’t accept the group”.
(aacultwatch forum; subject entitled “Elite club”) http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch/messages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E

A.A. Grapevine articles by professional alcoholism councillors:

A Plea for Non-interference (AA Grapevine May 1990, Vol.46 no.12).

I have a high regard and respect for AA's Twelve Step program and have witnessed countless success stories….. I am also aware of unnecessary human pain and suffering among recovering members…… Often I have heard AA members who think they know best for all alcoholics and perceive that if you just ‘work the program’ everything will be fine. That is not always the case. There are members in your program who have experienced traumatic, life threatening events and who need professional help and, sometimes, medication……… On several occasions I have had clients who were extremely suicidal and had sought professional help. Recently, two clients threatened suicide, and because AA members thought they knew more than the medical and psychological professions, the individuals almost died… …yet AA members stepped in and convinced my clients to discontinue use of the medication.

……… Members often advise vulnerable, emotionally confused people not to seek medical and mental health assistance, and to take no drugs………..The two suicidal individuals of whom I speak had been sexually abused as children by three or more members of their families and had experienced other abuses as well. Both were emotionally and psychologically fragile………..I suggest that each AA member read in the Big Book where it addresses the issues of obtaining outside professional help when it is necessary…...... I do not like to be placed in a position where people want to die and it's up to me to try and protect them from self-harm. I am the person in the trenches, passionately dedicated to saving lives and helping all people recover not only from alcoholism but other life threatening problems. Please stop telling other recovering AA members not to consult physicians and psychotherapists. Please stop telling members that they are ‘breaking sobriety’ by taking needed medication. Please stop enabling members to attempt suicide.
(Extracts of an article by P…B…, alcoholism councillor, Colorado)

Dear Grapevine, Playing Doctor” (AA grapevine January 2010)

As a psychologist in addictions, with 23 years of recovery in AA, I would like to express concern about the letter titled ‘Misdiagnosis’ (Dear Grapevine, September 2009). While it is true that many people in mental health have inadequate addictions training, it is also true that many people with addictions have other mental health issues. I have not seen the sign, ‘I have one disease--alcoholism--and if I take care of that one disease, everything will be okay,’ at any meeting, nor is this sentiment reflected in any AA literature. Many people have co-occurring substance/alcohol and psychiatric disorders that interact with each other. Untreated bipolar disorder is not conducive to ongoing sobriety, for example. Neither is active psychosis. The list goes on. Dr. Bob and Bill W. emphasized respect and cooperation with the mental health professional community. We emphasize not playing God in AA; let's remember not to play doctor, too. Anonymous””

Comment: A fairly hard hitting analysis of where WE have failed (individually and collectively) to be both accountable and responsible for the welfare of those who come to us for assistance. It is worth noting here that these problems have not been imported into AA from outside ie. via treatment centres etc but have emerged from within our own society. Moreover we have already been explicitly warned of the personality type which underlies these dogma driven and essentially dishonest approaches. In this instance we refer you to the basic text: “Alcoholics Anonymous”, Chapter Five: How it Works pp. 60-62 (beginning with: “The first requirement is that we be convinced that any life...” and ending with: “We had to have God's help”.). From this it can be seen that these essentially narcissistic personalities seek to impose their perspective (largely false and mostly contrived) on others either by manipulation or by direct coercion. Their strategies are various ranging from: a presentation of an alternative AA programme citing Oxford Group (a fundamentalist Christian movement) influences together with references to a preliminary draft of the Big Book (that presented a much more dogmatic approach - and which was subsequently rejected by the early members as unworkable); a largely apocryphal (and predominantly anecdotal) presentation of AA recovery rates (ranging from 75% to 97%) that (it is alleged) was the norm in the 'Akron version' of the recovery method, this delivered via an authoritarian 'sponsorship' system (established supposedly by Clarence Snyder – an early AA member who moreover did not view with any great favour the adoption of AA's Traditions). As already indicated the internet now provides the means for an easy dissemination of this reformulation of both AA history and methodology. We have acquired a whole swathe of largely self-appointed 'experts' on recovery who use this medium for the proliferation of their highly questionable 'philosophies'. So for example David C (Joys of Recovery etc) believes himself qualified to pronounce on matters relating to medical diagnosis, counselling, psychiatric conditions etc. To the best of our knowledge he has neither formal training in these disciplines nor even direct experience (and nor for that matter did his sponsor David B)(see Dual Recovery Anonymous (Medications and Recovery) for more on the consequences of such advice). His approach most clearly exemplifies the role of sponsor as the new “Higher Power” in AA. Indeed far from “quit[ting] playing God” this type exercises a degree of control over their charges' lives which would be the envy of any Stalinist regime with no sphere of activity being exempt from their direction (and we do mean here 'direction' and not 'suggestion); dress code, relationships, work, finances, sexual activity, beliefs, attitudes, values etc all fall within the purview of this almost God-like personage.(see here: an example of sexual voyeurism included as part of the cult's version of a moral inventory). For their part the compliance of their 'victims' is ensured through a mixture of bribes (eg. the so-called twelve promises) together with the ultimate and extremely potent sanction (ie. 'if you fail to take direction you'll drink again!') and so on. The Primary Purpose/Back to Basics gang, on the other hand, tend to favour a misrepresentation of AA recovery rates to lend any credence to their own version of recovery claiming that the alleged decline can be attributed to a progressive “watering down” of its original presentation. In connection with this the essay by Tom P (later amended by his son Tom P Jnr) “Gresham's Law and Alcoholics Anonymous” is frequently cited as supporting evidence together with various questionable statistics (generally unsupported themselves by any hard evidence or derived from samples so small that they hardly represent a sound basis for any argument), both of which have been challenged by AA members (see here and here). The Back to Basics movement make various claims about the numbers of people who have been through their course and their success (unspecified). However they seem unable to supply the requisite data and moreover seem ambivalent about their relationship with AA ie. are they independent of AA or are their groups listed in our Where to Finds? The Primary Purpose grouping again place much emphasis on the 'watering down angle' (tied in with a commercial operation - a nice little sideline involving bookbinding). Cliff B, Myers R, Chris R seem to be most active in promoting their various study groups, workshops, speaker tours together with all the usual spin offs (study guides, CDs etc – and not forgetting of course those rather expensive but oh-so-desirable custom bound copies of the Big Book care of Myers R and Chris R). The Road to Recovery (otherwise known as “Joys”, “Visions” or more colloquially amongst AA members as the “Taliban”, “Step Nazis” etc) derives from the movement founded by David B (and continued by David C) back in the late seventies/early eighties. David B (the originator of the “Misery is Optional” slogan, this itself a misrepresentation of AA literature) placed a great deal of emphasis on the role of sponsorship elevating it to its current perverse pre-eminence within the cult hierarchy. Interestingly David B omitted to practice what he preached failing apparently to avail himself of this allegedly indispensable adjunct to recovery (it was discovered subsequently that his so-called sponsor was yet another figment of his extremely fertile imagination!). A liar and a fraud (and with voyeuristic tendencies) he was nevertheless most convincing and managed to build up a small coterie (based mostly in Chelsea and its environs) but which subsequently dispersed to other parts of the country including - and most notably - Plymouth. Here it has flourished (to such an extent that the local intergroup is essentially run by this single group) and has formed links with the Pacific Group in the US. With regard to the latter this has been headed up for some years by Clancy I. The same pattern emerges as always with these essentially incestuous cliques, and from which devolve the usual abuses associated with such groupings, this culminating in probably the worst exemplar to date: the Midtown groups in Washington DC. (Incidentally - and perhaps not totally surprisingly – the ex-ring leader of this group Mike Q(uinones)(now deceased) was a sponsee of Clancy I as is Wayne P of the Road to Recovery (Plymouth). Now it would be unreasonable to blame the sponsor for the misdeeds of their sponsees but one does have to ask what kind of “guidance” was (is) being offered in these cases; let's hope it's not “direction” and, moreover, doesn't involve 'meds'; Clancy is an exponent of the anti-prescribed medication perspective!). Finally we come to Joe (deceased) and Charlie, a duet of AA members who for some years now have been “carrying the AA message” (although which one we're not quite sure!) to all and sundry. In a virtually non-stop tour their workshops, tapes, CDs etc have been disseminated throughout AA (mostly in the US but with regular forays into Great Britain - usually via the Bristol Reunion – yet another questionable collective!). The material is mostly innocuous though heavily laden with Christian referencing and primarily suitable for those AA members who prefer their programme pre-packaged and 'microwaveable'. The audience at least will come away from these events feeling satisfied in the same way one does after consuming a Chinese takeaway. The warm glow of satiation lasts just long enough to give the illusion of a filling meal but then the hunger returns too soon afterwards. Still one can always top up with another CD from some other expert with yet another version of the recovery programme! Perhaps this one will include Chapter 7 – Joe and Charlie for some reason seem to have missed that bit out in their own unique rendition? Or perhaps it's because the Big Book's Step 12 doesn't quite coincide with theirs).

More anon

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Tuesday, 24 January 2012

Fort Lauderdale Speakers Group



We have received information that some concerns have been expressed about this group:

Fort Lauderdale Speakers Group
100 N Andrews Ave
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301-1085
Fridays 7:30pm

previously located at:

St. Benedict's Episcopal Church
7801 NW 5th Street
Plantation, FL 33324

They are already listed in our US Cult Where to Find as a group with outside affiliations ie. Into Action

The criticisms are as follows:

Non- adherence to traditions by promoting non-AA events and enterprises;

giving away Hazelden little red Big Books;

recording the meeting without announcing it to the meeting. They may tell the speaker, but do not tell anyone else. They post the meeting recordings on non-AA websites.”

So far their responses to these criticisms have been less than constructive.

More importantly (from our perspective) group members “have told their sponsees to stop taking their medications. One was medication for depression, and the other for bipolar.”

Apparently this group is an off-shoot of the Boca Speakers group which is run along the same lines.

Same old same old! Some people just never learn!

See here for AA guidelines on prescribed medications.

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

(our thanks to our local reporter)

Saturday, 19 November 2011

Prescribed medication issues

(extracts from I-Say – Grapevine online forum)


“Medications and AA

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2011-10-06 23:38.

I was on drugs when I joined AA and knew folks who talked like taking any drug, even aspirin, was tantamount to not staying sober. I did not feel I had to agree. I think that part of why AA worked for me was AA people are ordinary folks and non professional and because of this I felt free to only worry about what I could grasp as being true and/or helpful that they shared about such as the 12 steps and all that.

I already knew from experience that it was a very bad idea to take any homespun advice about going off my psychiatric drugs.

I did eventually taper off of the drugs with the help and support of several doctors. I was criticized for that because gossip had it I did not have the support of a doctor. It was true that the idea was controversial among my doctors and the busybodies who knew that were supposed to stay out of that outside controversy too.”



“Getting Off the Roller Coaster

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2011-09-20 15:31.

I just read this article in this month's Grapevine. It always scares me when AA's are told to go off their medications. I am a dual diagnosis with a diagnosis that, like my alcoholism, there is no cure for and will never go away. Thank God I have a sponsor who knows that this is an outside issue, and the tradition that states we have no opinions on outside issues, and always tells me to talk to my doctor.”



“Getting Off the Roller Coaster

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2011-10-03 10:43.

I, too, have a bipolar type II depression and anxiety disorders in addition to my alcoholism. I once had a member of AA tell me that Step 2 was my problem. That God was all or nothing and hinted that I needed medication because I hadn't fully "come to believe." I was devastated but admittedly I was also living in fear of my mental disorders. This fear proved that I did need to focus on steps 2 and 3 more than I was but I do not think that it means I don't need my meds.

The most confusing part of have a dual-diagnosis is that both of them share the same symptoms (anxiety, depression, obsessive thinking, highs and lows of mood, problems with interpersonal and work relationships, etc.) I used to find myself confused and asking "Is this my alcoholism or my bipolar?"

Fortunately, I now have a sponsor who understands what I am going through (my last one did not and told me I didn't need to go to counseling because I was too focused on myself as it was. Her answer was more service work at a time that I couldn't even get myself to take a shower on most days. I no longer resent her - she just didn't get it and she also didn't adhere to the Tradition of having no opinions on outside issues.)

I have learned that if I know I am practising the principles of the program in all of my affairs and I still feel depressed or anxious then it is my bipolar and I need to call my doctor about my meds. And honestly, I can't work my program very well unless my meds are working well first.

In my experience, clinical depression affects my mental and physical abilities to take the action needed to work my program. If I had diabetes and didn't take insulin when needed and went into a diabetic coma, guess what? I wouldn't be able to take the action needed to work my program either.

I can no more "will" myself out of depression than I could "will" my body to produce the proper amount of insulin. Who would tell a diabetic, "Well, if you really had faith in God then you wouldn't need those insulin shots." That is ludicrous!

Ah, but now I feel I am treading on giving my opinion on outside issues so I will end my comment here :)”



“I couldn't agree more

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2011-10-07 15:46.

Thank you for your post, it's well said and comprehensive. I can't stay sober if I don't treat my bipolar disorder and the hardest part is that some days the symptoms of bipolar disorder mimic that of alcoholism. Let's not even talk about how I react to trigger's of trauma. I've spent 12 years without a drink, switching meds, therapists, doctors and sponsors. But I always come back to my sponsor that understands about mental issues, and I now have a therapist who helps me look at MY BARRIERS to the step in the Big Book. He actually pulls it off the shelf and makes me read it out loud and then we discuss what that means to me today. I am so grateful for him. I gave my Psychiatrist the AA Pamphlet 11 - Medication and Other Drugs, as it suggests right in the pamphlet to do, and she was surprised, as none of her patients who she saw had ever done so. I had a major breakdown 6 months ago, but I didn't drink and I didn't drive my car off the road, because AA taught me how to ask for help. I have been in a dual diagnosis treatment center 3-5 days a week at a daytime outpatient program and often find myself educating the staff and other dual-diagnosed people about the principles of the AA program they like to write down on our treatment plans as treatment for alcoholism. It seems most of the clinicians I come across do not have too much knowledge about the true spiritual nature of alcoholism. Many clinicians still talk about medicating the other disorders with alcohol and drugs but don't really understand the spiritual depravity that alcoholics are experiencing because of the alcoholism, drinking or dry. The issue is a very important one that needs to continue to be discussed in forum's just like this. The founder's wrote the very prophetic "more will be revealed" and "we only know a little". The reason this topic is so hot is because there are better medicines to help the "manic-depressive, type of alcoholic, about whom a whole chapter could be written" It was the Grapevine that helped to form the traditions and be a cohesive voice for the fellowship and it seems that this is EXACTLY the forum we should continue to have this type of discussions.


Thank you and all of AA”



“The Roller Coaster article

Submitted on Sun, 2011-09-25 15:28.

I too just listened to this story and found myself getting concerned that the author was taking himself off meds. This is my experience: I suffer from both depression and anxiety. Someone told me as I was coming into recovery that my symptoms were likely caused by alcohol. This always sat under my consciousness and as I came closer to my 2nd year of recovery I decided that I should get off my meds as "they were a crutch" and "of course I could be sober on them but could I do sobriety without relying on them?" Dangerous thinking. I asked my doctor to move me toward stopping the medication. She put me on a program of decreasing doses. I got down to lowest dose and found myself getting depressed and anxious contemplating the next step: nothing. I talked to my sponsor who assured me that many people face need for medications in sobriety for diabetes, high blood pressure, and a host of other ailments-- did I now think that depression wasn't a valid ailment? I asked Higher Power to direct my thinking. I "remembered" that I come from a lineage of depression and that my paternal grandmother killed herself while committed to mental institution and my father had suffered from deep depression and numerous suicide attempts. So I called my doctor and relayed my fears and discomfort. I went back to the next to last dose. So yes, my dose is lower but I still take a medication that helps me keep my brain chemicals in balance. That was almost four years ago. Facing any diseases in addition to alcoholism doesn't mean we are not doing sobriety right. I am grateful for AA and that I am taking care of my body that I had abused for years before recovery.”



Comment: The role of prescribed medication is not only an outside issue for AA as such but also remains beyond the competence of most AA members (ie. apart from those who are additionally in possession of recognised and relevant medical qualifications). Otherwise it is very much the case – MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)