The Oxford Group – How It DOESN'T Work!

Extracts from the aacultwatch forum (old)

“Thanks …... I agree Joe’s books are really simple, that’s the problem I have with them. It’s all there in black and white, how to take the steps and how to sponsor, according to Joe. Done and dusted; a quick fix. I can understand their appeal. However, much of the way we communicate is subconscious. The subliminal insinuated messages in Joe’s writing are disturbing to me. Anyone who hasn’t much knowledge of AA history will probably be unaware of them. For many alcoholics recovery is not so simple. Nor is AA history as simple and as black and white as Joe McQ portrays. He makes little distinction between early AA groups and Oxford Groups. Early AA groups were not Oxford Groups. He takes the 1935-1939 pre formative AA timescale (Oxford Group/alcoholic group) out of its context and then mixes it with the post 1939 early AA timescale. His account of the early AA period (post 1939) doesn’t appear to distinguish between what was the overall developing AA policy at the time and what were the painful mistakes of inexperienced groups who were either dictatorships or on rule making benders.

To me, Joe McQ portrays a half truth of early AA history which leaves a very distorted picture of the origin of the twelve steps, of AA history and of sponsorship.  His books just give you the white, as Joe sees it, leaving out most of the black and shades of grey to be found in the Alcoholics Anonymous World Service books. What Joe doesn’t say is just as telling as what he does. To explain why I have a problem with Joe’s books will take a number of posts, so I hope you’ll bear with me. I’ll reference the posts with literature published by AA World Services and AA Grapevine, so if you then wish to do so, you’ll be able to check out what I have to say for yourself. The first post will be a few things about the Oxford Group that Joe doesn’t tell you, the 2^nd will be a few things from the early AA period that Joe doesn’t tell you, the 3^rd will be relating AA traditions to the reason why I have a problem with his books. First post coming up soon….. “

“Here’s the first post about the problem I have with Joe McQ’s portrayal of The relationship between early A.A. and the Oxford group. The beginnings of A.A. are complex because A.A. began simultaneously both in New York and Akron. It is noted in the forward to “Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers” that a joint biography of the Co-founders was planned, but this proved impractical; therefore the biography of Dr. Bob and the development of A.A. in the Midwest was published in “Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers” and Bill W’s biography and the development of A.A. in New York was published in “Pass It On”.  The development of AA in the Midwest around Akron is only half the story. In this post I’ll focus on a couple of issues I have with Joe McQ’s version of events and the development of A.A. in New York.

Joe McQ writes very simply about the Oxford Group as though it was a successful and positive influence; Bill W got his ideas for the AA program from the Oxford Group in Akron.

“…Buchman was immediately successful. People who followed this procedure were changed. The Oxford groups grew and spread. Realizing that these five basic principles – these tenets – were the foundation of Christianity (and other religions worldwide), Buchman called his movement “First Century Christian Fellowship”…  (Carry this message p14)

.. “After visiting with the Oxford Group members in Akron, Bill went back to New York with a better understanding of their program. And he went back with knowledge of the powerful dynamics he had learned in Akron: the problem, the solution, and the program of action…” Carry This Message p18)

“Bill expanded the Oxford Group’s tenets, and this is what he, Dr. Bob Smith, and the ‘first one hundred’ got sober on. Although they got sober in the Oxford Groups, Bill felt that alcoholics needed to change more drastically than other members of the Oxford Groups did. He realized the tenets needed to be adapted and the meetings made separate for alcoholics. When he wrote the steps in 1938, Bill Wilson did a lot more than just put them together. He found a language alcoholics were more likely to respond to.”(Carry This Message p 19)

The Oxford Group wasn’t as successful as Joe portrays, it mostly failed in sobering up alcoholics. The relationship between the Oxford Group and early AA wasn’t as simple, nor was it as positive. Joe doesn’t mention the Oxford Group’s negative side of coercion or the development of A.A. in New York.  It can be seen from the extracts from Conference Approved literature below that Bill W. and Ebby T. were with the Oxford Group in New York.  Bill W started going to the Oxford Group meetings in December 1934 in New York. The first pre-formative AA meetings in New York were held in 1935 at Bill W’s house in Clinton Street. Perhaps if these meetings had not been suppressed by the Oxford Group in 1935, Bill might have had more success with sobering up alcoholics in the early days in New York. The alcoholics attending the Oxford Group Calvary mission in New York were instructed by the Oxford Group not to attend the meetings at Bill’s house. After about six months of early failures in trying to sober up alcoholics in New York by preaching the Oxford Group message, Bill changed his approach on the advice of psychiatrist Dr. Silkworth. He tried Dr. Silkworth’s approach shortly after with Dr. Bob when he made a trip to Akron. It is clear that Bill W. was not getting a better understanding of the Oxford Group program and the “powerful dynamics he had learned in Akron” as Joe McQ insinuates, but that he was carrying his own developing A.A. program to Dr. Bob in Akron. At this time, it was based on Bill’s previous six month experience of trying to sober up alcoholics in New York combined with the advice gained from Dr. Silkworth. The following are extracts from AA Conference approved literature:

“After Bill’s release from Towns on December 18, he and Lois started attending Oxford Group meetings at Calvary House, adjacent to Calvary Episcopal Church.” (Pass It On p127)

“In those early months of 1935, Bill Wilson preached the Oxford Group message to anybody who would listen. He spent long hours at Calvary Mission and at Towns, where Dr. Silkworth, at the risk of his reputation, gave Bill permission to talk with some of the patients.” (Pass It On p 131)

“My new Oxford Group friends (the religious group in which Ebby had made his, first, but not final recovery) objected to the idea of alcoholism as an illness, so I had quit talking about the allergy –plus- the- obsession. I wanted the approval of these new friends, and in trying to be humble and helpful, I was neither. Slowly I learned, as most of us do, that when ego gets in the way it blocks communication” (Bill W. The Language of the Heart p 247)

“In that fall of 1935, a weekly meeting took shape in our Brooklyn parlour. In spite of much failure, a really solid group finally developed. There was first Henry P., and there was Fitz M., both out of Towns Hospital. Following them, more began to make real recoveries.” (Bill W. Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age p74)

"While Lois later admitted that their success rate was low during the 1935-36 period at Clinton Street, she pointed out that many of the alcoholics Bill worked with during that time did recover later on. In other words, Lois said, the seeds of sobriety were being planted, to take root slowly." (Pass It On Page 166)

“Tension began to develop between the main group at Calvary Church and Bill’s struggling band of alcoholics. The Oxford Group leaders resented the fact Bill was holding separate meetings for alcoholics at Clinton Street. They criticized his work with the alcoholics as being “narrow and divisive” The alcoholics, on the other hand, felt they needed these special meetings because many of the nonalcoholic O.G. members did not understand them. Jack Smith, one of Sam Shoemaker’s assistants, disapproved of Bill’s work and finally brought the conflict out into the open. In an informal talk at a Sunday Oxford Group gathering, he made references to special meetings “held surreptitiously behind Mrs. Jones’s barn.” The atmosphere of the Oxford Group then became “slightly chilly” toward the Wilsons.  Near the end of 1935, the alcoholics living at Calvary Mission were instructed not to attend the meetings at Clinton Street. “This not only hurt us but left us disappointed in the groups’ leadership,” Lois remembered.¹” (Pass It On p169)

“1. This incident led Sam Shoemaker to apologize to Bill later, after he himself had broken with the Oxford Group in 1941. Shoemaker wrote: ‘If you ever write the story of A.A.’s early connection with Calvary, I think it ought to be said in all honesty that we were coached in the feeling that you were off on your own spur, trying to do something by yourself, and out of the mainstream of the work. You got your inspiration from those early days, but you didn’t get much encouragement from any of us and for my own part in that stupid desire to control the Spirit, as he manifested Himself in individual people like you, I am heartily sorry and ashamed.” (Footnote Pass It On page 178)

“After some six months of violent exertion with scores of alcoholics which I found at a nearby mission and Towns Hospital, it began to look like the Oxford Groupers were right. I hadn’t sobered up anybody.” “Bill W. “A fragment of A.A. History: Origin of the Twelve Steps” AA Grapevine July 1953, The Language of the Heart p 198)

“There was, though, one bright spot. My sponsor Ebbie, still clung precariously to his newfound sobriety. What was the reason for all these fiascos? If Ebbie and I could achieve sobriety, why couldn’t all the rest find it too? Some of those we’d worked on certainly wanted to get well. We speculated day and night why nothing much had happened to them. Maybe they couldn’t stand the spiritual pace of the Oxford Group’s four absolutes of honesty, purity, unselfishness, and love. In fact some of the alcoholics declared that this was the trouble. The aggressive pressure put upon them to get good overnight would make them fly high as geese for a few weeks and then flop dismally. They complained too of another form of coercion – something the Oxford Groupers called ‘guidance for others.’ A ‘team composed of nonalcoholic Groupers would sit down with an alcoholic and after ‘quiet time’ would come up with precise instructions as to how the alcoholic should run his own life. As grateful as we were to our O.G. friends, this was sometimes tough to take. It obviously had something to do with the wholesale skidding that went on.” (Bill W. “A fragment of A.A. History: Origin of the Twelve Steps” AA Grapevine July 1953, The Language of the Heart page 199)

“Just before leaving for Akron, Dr. Silkworth had given me a great piece of advice. Without it A.A. might never have been born. ‘Look, Bill,’ he had said ‘you’re having nothing but failure because you are preaching at these alcoholics. You are talking to them about the Oxford Group precepts of being absolutely honest, absolutely pure, absolutely unselfish, and absolutely loving. This is a very big order. Then you top it off by harping on about this mysterious spiritual experience of yours. No wonder they point to their finger to their heads and go out and get drunk. Why don’t you turn your strategy the other way around? Aren’t you the very fellow who once showed me that book by the psychologist James which says that deflation at great depth is the foundation of most spiritual experiences? Have you forgotten that Dr. Carl Yung in Zurich told a certain alcoholic, the one who later helped sober up your friend Ebby, that his only hope of salvation was a spiritual experience? No, Bill you have got the cart before the horse. You’ve got to deflate these people first. So give them the medical business, and give it to them hard. Pour it right into them about the obsession that condemns them to drink and the physical sensitivity or allergy of the body that condemns them to go mad or die if they keep on drinking. Coming from an alcoholic, one alcoholic talking to another, maybe that will crack those tough egos deep down.  Only then can you begin to try out your other medicine, the ethical principles you have picked up from the Oxford Groups. ” (Bill W. Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age pp 67- 68)

“Shortly after this history-making conversation, I found myself in Akron, Ohio, on a business venture which promptly collapsed. Alone in the town, I was scared to death of getting drunk. I was no longer a teacher or a preacher, I was an alcoholic who knew that he needed another alcoholic, as much as that one could possibly need me. Driven by that urge, I was soon face to face with Dr. Bob. It was at once evident that Dr. Bob knew more of spiritual things than I did. He also had been in touch with the Oxford Groupers at Akron. But somehow he simply couldn't get sober. Following Dr. Silkworth's advice, I used the medical sledgehammer. I told him what alcoholism was and just how fatal it could be. Apparently this did something to Dr. Bob, On June 10, 1935, he sobered up, never to drink again. When, in 1939, Dr. Bob's story first appeared in the book, Alcoholic Anonymous, he put one paragraph of it in italics. Speaking of me, he said: "Of far more importance was the fact that he was the first living human with whom I had ever talked, who knew what be was talking about in regard to alcoholism from actual experience".” (Bill W. “A fragment of A.A. History: Origin of the Twelve Steps” AA Grapevine July 1953, The Language of the Heart pp 199-200)

“The Oxford Groupers had clearly shown us what to do. And, just as importantly, we had also learned  what not to do as far as alcoholics were concerned. We found that certain of their ideas and attitudes simply could not be sold to alcoholics. For example, drinkers would not take pressure in any form, excepting from John Barleycorn himself. They always had to be led, not pushed. They would not stand for the rather aggressive evangelism of the Oxford Groups. And they would not accept the principle of ‘team guidance’ for their own personal lives. It was too authoritarian for them. In other respects, too, we found when first contacted most alcoholics just wanted to find sobriety, nothing else. They clung to their other defects, letting go only little by little. ” (Bill W. Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age p 74)

“One of the first insights Dr. Bob and I shared was that all true communication must be founded on mutual need. Never could we talk down to anyone, certainly not a fellow alcoholic. We saw that each sponsor would have to humbly admit his own needs as clearly as those of his prospect. Here was the foundation for AA’s Twelfth Step to recovery, the Step in which we carry the message.” (Bill W. “The Language of the Heart” The Language of the Heart p 247)

“Until the middle of 1937 we in New York had been working alongside the Oxford Groups. But in the latter part of that year we most reluctantly parted company with these great friends. Naturally enough they did not think too highly of our objective, limited as it was to alcoholics.” (Bill W. Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age p 74)

“Bill had friends in the Oxford Group who understood his view of the situation. One of them was John Ryder, a New York advertising executive who knew Bill in the days of the Calvary Mission. Ryder made these comments about Bill’s separation from the Oxford Group: “I was, or felt, quite close to Bill Wilson in the early days before A.A. was started. Herb Wallace, a close teammate of mine, spent much time with Bill, caused him to take a public speaking course at the Downtown Athletic Club; but I think the ‘group’ proper disowned Bill when he proceeded on his guidance to create a special group for A.A.’s. At that time, if you were associated with the ‘group,’ your guidance seemed to be of questionable worth unless okayed by Sam Shoemaker or Frankie Buchman or one of his accredited representatives.” (Pass It On p173-174)

“The Oxford Group disapproved of the alcoholics’ concentration on their problem to the exclusion of other group concerns. Lois even said that the “Oxford Group kind of kicked us out,” that she and Bill were not considered “maximum” by the groupers. (“Maximum” was used by the Oxford Group to define the expected degree of commitment to group activities.)” (Pass It On p174)

“1937 Bill and the New York alcoholics separate from Oxford Group. More than 40 alcoholics are now staying sober. (Pass It On Page 407)

“…but by counting everybody who seemed to have found sobriety in New York and Akron, they concluded that more than 40 alcoholics were staying dry as a result of the program! (Pass It On page 178)

In 1938, Frank Amos, an assistant to John D. Rockefeller Jr., made several reports to Rockefeller about the newly forming A.A. In one report he put the membership as follows: “Of the 110 members then in the program, 70 were in the Akron-Cleveland area, the report said” (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers p135) (This leaves 40 members in New York)

In 1939 Dr. Silkworth published a medical paper in which he stated: “These ex-alcoholic men and women number about one hundred at present. One Group is scattered along the Atlantic seaboard with New York as a center. Another and somewhat larger body is located in the Middle West”  (Dr. W.D Silkworth M.D. (A New Approach to Psychotherapy in Chronic Alcoholism,” Journal Lancet, July 1939; Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, appendix E:a, p 303)

To sum up, the first problem that I have with Joe McQ’s account of early AA history is his insinuation that Bill got his ideas for the A.A. program from the Oxford Group in Akron, and as Joe put it, “Bill went back to New York with a better understanding of their program.” It can be seen from the above that this statement should be the other way around. Bill took his own developing A.A. program to Akron and sobered up Dr. Bob, who couldn’t stay sober with the Oxford Group until he met Bill.  Secondly, it can be seen from the above that Joe McQ’s reference to ‘the first one hundred’ “got sober in the Oxford Groups” is simplistic. At the time the book Alcoholics Anonymous was published in 1939, the New York group had already been separated from the Oxford Group for some two years. It is unlikely that all the ‘first one hundred’ got sober with the Oxford groups. Those of the ‘first one hundred’ who joined the New York group after 1937 would have got sober in this group rather than the Oxford Groups.”

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

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Oxford Groups – absolutely NOT!

Extracts from the aacultwatch forum (old):

“........Some people seem to get confused with the Oxford Groups and early A.A. groups. The Oxford Groups were a different organization. When the alcoholic groups split from the Oxford Group they made it clear that they were not Oxford Groups. Nor were the four absolutes ever part of the A.A. program. Here are a few more bits on the Oxford Group absolutes:

“We are not saints… … …We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.” (Big Book, Chapter Five , How it works, page 60)

“When first contacted, most alcoholics just wanted to find sobriety, nothing else. They clung to their other defects, letting go only little by little. They just simply did not want to get “too good too soon.” The Oxford Groups’ absolute concepts – absolute purity, absolute honesty, absolute unselfishness and absolute love – were frequently too much for the drunks… … … ... ...”

“Besides, the Oxford Groups’ ‘absolutes’ were expressions peculiar to them. This was a terminology which might continue to identify us in the public mind with the Oxford Groupers, even though we had completely withdrawn from their fellowship.” (AA Comes of Age Pages 74-75).

“In Akron and vicinity they still talked about the Oxford groups’ absolutes: absolute honesty, absolute purity, absolute unselfishness, and absolute love. This dose was found to be too rich for the New Yorkers, and we had abandoned the expressions.”- Bill W. (AA Comes of Age Page 161)

“The principles of honesty, purity, unselfishness, and love are as much a goal for A.A. members and are as much practiced by them as by any group of people; yet we found when we the word ‘absolute’ was put in front of these attributes, they either turned people away by the hundreds or gave a temporary spiritual inflation resulting in collapse.” - Bill W. (Pass It On page 172)”

“ …....Rejection of the "4 Absolutes" was part of the reason AA split away from the Oxford Groups. They do smack of sanctimonious religion and totalitarianism don't they! And of course they are ultimately unattainable....

I've always wondered exactly what "absolute Purity" is supposed to be. I know that the founder of the Oxford Groups, Frank Buchmann, admired Hitler, attended Nazi rallies in Germany, and held racist views. It always gives me a shudder when I hear the phrase Absolute Purity. It sounds like something that would resonate with the aims of the Third Reich, or a ranting hooded Ku Klux Klan preacher,... ( or an abusive AA cult sponsor who thinks he knows it all and is God's gift to AA and must be obeyed at all times).

What annoys me is when you hear people in AA referring to the 4 Absolutes in glowing or nostalgic terms - like they are some lost secret, or a worthy destination in recovery. Then of course you have the non-AA websites promoting these concepts. I've looked at several recently, including the David C Icons site, which warmly enthuse about the 4 Absolutes as if they were part of the AA program. Well, they are not, and never will be.   Their subtle re-introduction into the domain of AA by the likes of David C Icons, Dick B, Wally P etc  is a subversion of the fellowship and a perversion of the program of AA.”

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

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Catholics In – Oxford Group Out!

The Catholic Contribution to the 12-Step Movement

“At first, there were no Catholic members in AA, but their participation was made possible by the final separation of AA from the Oxford Group.

In New York, the first Catholic member was Morgan R., who acted as AA's first unofficial liaison with the Catholic Church. Morgan submitted the manuscript of the book Alcoholics Anonymous ("the Big Book") to the New York Archdiocesan Committee on Publications and received a favorable response. The Committee, Morgan reported, "had nothing but the best to say of our efforts. From their point of view the book was perfectly all right as far as it went." A few editorial suggestions were readily and gratefully incorporated, especially in the section treating of prayer and meditation.

Only one change was requested. In Wilson's story, he had "made a rhetorical flourish to the effect that 'we have found Heaven right here on this good old earth.' " It was suggested he change "Heaven" to "Utopia." "After all, we Catholics are promising folks something much better later on!"

A Catholic non-alcoholic who profoundly influenced AA in its early days was Fr. Edward Dowling of the Society of Jesus. Although his involvement with AA was only one of many apostolic and charitable works, his influence on AA was considerable. His work is valuable as a pattern for Catholics who wish to relate constructively to AA and other recovery groups.

 

Dowling was a Jesuit from St. Louis and was the editor of a Catholic publication called The Queen's Work. Upon reading the Big Book, he was favorably impressed and saw parallels between the 12 steps and aspects of Ignatian spirituality—perhaps especially the Ignatian admonition to pray as if everything depends on God and to work as if everything depends on oneself.

Dowling made Wilson's acquaintance on a cold, rainy night in 1940. Wilson grudgingly admitted the visitor, thinking his unexpected guest was yet another drunk demanding help and attention. Soon, as they talked, the Jesuit began to share an understanding of the spiritual life which was to influence Wilson from that day forward.

This is all the more remarkable because Wilson had never known any Catholics intimately and felt a lingering prejudice against members of the clergy, of whatever denomination.

 

Wilson viewed his meeting with Dowling as "a second conversion experience." The crippled Jesuit, he said, "radiated a grace that filled the room with a sense of Presence" (interestingly enough, Wilson used the same expression, "sense of Presence," to describe his impression of Winchester Cathedral in England, which had obvious Catholic associations and where he had first experienced a desire for God many years before). Wilson was feeling depressed and angry at God because, at the moment, he seemed to be a failure:

As Wilson's biographer tells it, "When Bill asked if there was never to be any satisfaction, the old man snapped back, 'Never. Never any.' There was only a kind of divine dissatisfaction that would keep him going, reaching out always."

The priest went on: Having surrendered to God and received back his sobriety, Wilson could not retract his surrender by demanding an accounting from God when life did not unfold according to preconceived expectations. Even the sense of dissatisfaction could be an occasion of spiritual growth.

Dowling then hobbled to the door and declared, as a parting shot, "that if ever Bill grew impatient, or angry at God's way of doing things, if ever he forgot to be grateful for being alive right here and now, he, Father Ed Dowling, would make the trip all the way from St. Louis to wallop him over the head with his good Irish stick." And so began a twenty-year friendship between Wilson and Dowling, who remained Wilson's spiritual advisor.

Wilson was deeply attracted to the Catholic Church and even received instruction from Fulton Sheen in 1947. Wilson's wife Lois, looking back on it all, was sure that he was never really close to conversion; but a close friend thought otherwise: "I had the impression that at the last minute, he didn't go through with his conversion because he felt it would not be right for AA."

The simplest explanation is that Wilson remained profoundly ambivalent about organized religion and its doctrines. Just as he had shied away from the "Absolutes" of the Oxford Group, so he could not see his way to accepting Catholicism's own absolutism—in particular, papal infallibility and the efficacy of sacraments: "Though no disbeliever in all miracles, I still can't picture God working like that."

Concerning infallibility, Wilson wrote to Dowling: "It is ever so hard to believe that any human beings, no matter who, are able to be infallible about anything." In a 1947 letter to Dowling he said, "I'm more affected than ever by that sweet and powerful aura of the Church; that marvelous spiritual essence flowing down by the centuries touches me as no other emanation does, but when I look at the authoritative layout, despite all the arguments in its favor, I still can't warm up.

No affirmative conviction comes . . . P. S. Oh, if only the Church had a fellow-traveler department, a cozy spot where one could warm his hands at the fire and bite off only as much as he could swallow. Maybe I'm just one more shopper looking for a bargain on that virtue— obedience!"

To Sheen Wilson wrote: "Your sense of humor will, I know, rise to the occasion when I tell you that, with each passing day, I feel more like a Catholic and reason more like a Protestant!"

This is precisely the challenge faced by Catholic apologists in witnessing to those in recovery groups: bringing the head and the heart together.

Wilson's difficulties with Catholic faith tell us that—without dilution—we must make our faith and its graces more accessible by connecting faith with experience. This does not mean we can neglect reasoned apologetics—far from it. We must respect people's intelligence. But, as Sheen noted, in some cases, our reasoning "leaves the modern soul cold, not because its arguments are unconvincing, but because the modern soul is too confused to grasp them."

If we offer a plausible account of the religious implications of 12-step recovery, we can perhaps get a receptive hearing for a fuller evangelization and catechesis.

At the convention marking AA's twentieth anniversary (the society's "coming of age"), Dowling said, "We know AA's 12 steps of man toward God. May I suggest God's 12 steps toward man as Christianity has taught them to me." He then went on to draw out the parallels between AA's steps of recovery and God's redemption of the human race in Christ, who is both the Incarnate God and the New Adam of redeemed humanity.

Dowling concluded with Francis Thompson's poem The Hound of Heaven, suggesting that the poem was "[t]he perfect picture of the AA's quest for God, but especially God's loving chase for the AA."

Another important, though somewhat later, Catholic influence on AA was Fr. John C. Ford, S.J., one of Catholicism's most eminent moral theologians. In the early forties, Ford himself recovered from alcoholism with AA's help. He became one of the earliest Catholic proponents of addressing alcoholism as a problem having spiritual, physiological, and psychological, dimensions.

Ford said that alcohol addiction is a pathology which is not consciously chosen, but he rejected the deterministic idea that alcoholism is solely a disease without any moral component: "[I]t obviously has moral dimensions, and that is one reason why the clergyman is thought to have a special role to play.

"To answer the question: Is alcoholism a moral problem or is it a sickness, I think the answer is that it is both. I don't think it is true to say that alcoholism is just a sickness, in the sense that cancer or tuberculosis are sicknesses. I think there are too many rather obvious differences between the two to classify alcoholism as a sickness in that sense. On the other hand, I don't think it is true either to say that alcoholism is just a moral problem. There are still a good many people who look at an alcoholic as a good-for-nothing with a weak will or one who doesn't use his willpower . . .

"They keep saying, 'Don't do it again,' over and over. I don't believe he does it just because he wants to do it or because he is willful. When you look at the agony that the alcoholic inflicts upon himself over the course of the years, it seems to me to be very difficult to say he wants to be that way or he does it on purpose. . . . I think it is fair to speak of alcoholism as a triple sickness—a sickness of the body, a sickness of the mind, and also a sickness of the soul."

Wilson, impressed by Ford's insight, asked him to edit Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions (with the Big Book, this is the basic text of 12-step recovery) and Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age. In part, Wilson's concern in these books was to present the AA program in a way acceptable to Catholic sensibilities.

Ford's contribution to AA was therefore twofold: He drew on both religion and psychology to show alcoholism as a synthetic problem requiring a synthetic remedy, and he took seriously the quasicompulsive nature of addiction while rejecting both absolute determinism and the attendant pitfalls of a purely therapeutic approach. He drew on psychological insights, but ultimately shared the sentiments of Dr. Bob, who used to say, "Don't louse it up with psychiatry."

In so many ways, Ford's approach to addiction and recovery remains a model of spiritual discernment for our own time.”

W. Robert Aufill

© This Rock, Catholic Answers, P.O. Box 17490, San Diego, CA 92177

(our emphases)

Comment: Setting aside both the underlying (and explicit) evangelistic tendencies and that peculiarly clerical conceit which suggests that they may possess some special expertise when it comes to matters of morality (emphasising thereby the importance of retaining a clear distinction between the 'religious' and the 'spiritual' domains) there are some interesting questions raised here about the “moral” dimension of addiction.

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

AA 'fundamentalism' in the US

Extract from our forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch

“There is plenty of material here on AACultwatch to get you started. AA's own histories ('Pass it On' and 'Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimer') can be helpful.

The 'cult' that the Fellas are struggling against is a specific manifestation of certain ugly trends, pushed by an identifiable set of individuals in the UK. As an American AA, I see several broad trends of ill-influence working against the fellowship.

1. Religion. In the US, far-right religious groups are working to destroy every democratic institution that stands in the way of their dreams of dominion. This encourages an infestation of 'Christian' recovery literature and organization which attempts to cross over into AA.

2. Related to 1 is the idealization of a fantasy of 'old style,' 'hardcore,' 'REAL' AA. This involves cherry-picking AA literature to promote a pseudo-religious movement. The 'AA White Paper' exemplifies this. These folks usually promote a false notion of the Oxford Group/Moral Re-Armament which implies that it was a harmless 'spiritual' movement rather than a sinister cult. Read 'The Mystery of Moral Re-Armament' by Tom Driberg for a good background on the OG.

3. Abusive and controlling sponsorship. This seems to flow from several 'mega-groups' like the Pacific Group [Clancy I] in Southern California, the MidTown [Michael Quinones] Group in Washington etc. These groups encourage a rigid, conformist approach enforced by a kind of pyramid of authority with a leading guru or swami at the top.

I also suspect the influence of treatment centers attempting to force unwilling patients through pop-psych versions of 'The Steps.'

There is NO clear line between sponsorship and 12th-stepping, every AA member owes his gratitude to fellowship, not to any guru. My sobriety (8,557 days) comes 24 hours at a time, just like the newcomer's. I may need his/her help more than they need mine.

Anyway, that's enough out of me for this morning. Just don't drink, go to meetings, 'take what you need and leave the rest' (knowing that some of 'the rest' is not really AA at all) and learn as much as you can. 

 

Even though AACultwatch is focussed on specific problems in England, the general principles apply wherever alcoholics stay sober together.”

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

aacultwatch forum daily reflections

Extracts from our forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch under thread: “aacultwatch forum daily reflections”

“About the Akron A.A.’s break with the Oxford Group, very little was set down in writing. Nor did Dr. Bob ever say much about the matter…” (Dr. Bob and the Good old Timers page 212)

“On the second day of New Year, 1940, Dr. Bob wrote Bill: ‘Have definitely shaken off the shackles of the Oxford Group’ (a choice of words indicates his attitude then) ‘and are meeting round my house for the time being. Had 74 Wednesday in my little house, but shall get a hall soon.’ … … … After a few meetings, Wally G. checked Kings School, where his daughter went. From then on it was every Wednesday night for the Kings school group,” (Dr. Bob and The Good Old timers pages 218-219)

“And their concept of a Higher Power was different from that of the groupers, who were not prepared to accept light bulbs and Third Avenue buses as examples of 'God as I understand Him' ... ... ... This, too, was an attitude that represented a fundamental difference between the A.A.s and the Oxford Groupers. A.A.s were more and more inclined to allow newer members to arrive at a concept of a Higher Power in their own time and manner.” (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers page 161)

“Dr. Bob sought to discover and familiarize himself with the spiritual laws in great part through his reading, which was extensive… … … ... ... ...‘He read about every religion,’ said Smitty, ‘not only the Christian religion. He could tell you about the Koran, Confucius, even voodooism, and many other things…’ ” (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers pages 309-310)

“Any concept of the Higher Power is acceptable. A sceptic or an agnostic may choose to think of his inner self, the miracle of growth, a tree, man’s wonderment at the physical universe, the structure of an atom, or mere mathematical infinity.” (Saturday Evening Post 1941; The Jack Alexander article about AA page 19)

“As finally expressed and offered, they [The Twelve Steps] are simple in language, plain in meaning. They are also workable by any person having a sincere desire to obtain and keep sobriety. The results are proof. Their simplicity and workability are such that no special interpretations, and certainly no reservations, have ever been necessary” - Dr. Bob (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers page 227)

“Dr. Bob never talked much about religion, but he was a very religious person. Whenever he got stuck about something, he always prayed about it. But that wasn’t something he spread around. It was his own private attitude.” – Elgie R. (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers page 314)

“But, Smitty noted, his father didn’t come on strong about philosophy or religion with others, because he didn’t want to scare them off.” (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers page 310)

(our emphases)

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

aacultwatch forum daily reflections

Extracts from our forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch under thread: “aacultwatch forum daily reflections”

“The year of the great Berkshire meeting, 1936, also brought difficulties for the Oxford Group. In August, the New York World-Telegram published an article about Buchman, charging that he was pro- Nazi. The newspaper quoted Buchman as saying: ‘I thank heaven for a man like Adolf Hitler who built a front-line defence against the Anti-Christ of Communism. Think what it would mean to the world if Hitler surrendered to God. Through such a man, God could control a nation and solve every problem. Human problems aren’t economic, they’re moral, and they can’t be solved by immoral measures.’ While most discussions of the incident, even by Buchman's critics, have since vindicated him, the article brought the group into public controversy … … … … In 1938, after Oxford University requested that the group, because of the controversy, no longer use its name, it took the name Moral Rearmament, abbreviated to M.R.A. (Pass It On pages 170-171)

“It became the Oxford Group in 1928 and renamed itself Moral rearmament (M.R.A.) in 1938.” (Pass It On page 130)

“So when the first break in Ohio came, it came in Cleveland, rather than Akron.” Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers page 161) 

 “Clarence said, ‘ I made the announcement at the Oxford Group that this was the last time the Cleveland bunch was down as a contingent – that there we were starting a group in Cleveland that would only be open to alcoholics and their families. Also that we were taking the name from the book ‘Alcoholics Anonymous.’

'The roof came of the house. 'Clarence you can't do this!' someone said.

' Its done'.

'We've got to talk about this!'

'It's too late' I said." (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers page 164)

“The meeting was set for the following week [May 11, 1939],’ Clarence said. I made the mistake of telling these people the address. They invaded the house and tried to break up our meeting. One fellow was going to whip me. All in the spirit of pure Christian love! But we stood our ground.' Dorothy’s recollections differed slightly. ‘We didn’t have any name,’ she said, ‘but we let everybody know it was definitely not an Oxford Group. Just alcoholics.' … … … ‘As a matter of fact,’ Dorothy said, ‘at one of our very early meetings, all the strict Oxford Group contingent came up from Akron and was very bitter and voluble. They felt we were being extremely disloyal to everyone in doing this. It was quite a step to pull away from Akron.” (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers pages 164-165) 

“Whatever the conversation between Doc may have had with Clarence before the Cleveland group started, he gave it his full support from the beginning, as did many other Akron A.A. members ‘Dr. Bob was at all these early meetings, which took place at our house,’ Al said in a letter to Bill.” (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers pages165-166)

“In November of 1939 the first all-AA group was formed in the City of Cleveland – the old Borton Group. (Dr. Bob and the Good Old timers page 169)”

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

aacultwatch forum daily reflections

Extracts from our forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch under thread: “aacultwatch forum daily reflections”

Extracts of an interview with Bob S., Jr. AA Grapevine September 2001

“Bob S., Jr., son of AA co-founder Dr. Bob, stopped by the Grapevine office in New York in April 2001, and it seemed like a good time to get some historical perspective on the Twelve Steps. Born June 5, 1918, and one of the last living witnesses to the founding of AA in Akron in 1935, Bob remains sharp of memory, wit, and dress, appearing much younger than his age…. …. …

Did the spiritual experience you had with your parents in recovery help you get through the war?

Yes. Of course I wouldn't have admitted it at the time. Those Oxford Group people scared me to death. They were so zealous. You know, in your face. But at least some of it stuck. They wanted to convert everybody right now. They were very, very strong spiritual people who wanted everybody to be maximum. I used to go to those meetings, and I always thought I was minimum.

What was your impression of the split between the Oxford Group and AA?

It had to be done. The Oxford Group had four absolutes: absolute honesty, absolute unselfishness, absolute purity, absolute love. I think anybody coming into Alcoholics Anonymous is not absolutely "absolute" about anything. Also, the Oxford Group catered to the upper middle class, and the early alcoholics were not upper middle class. They were low bottom alcoholics. The Oxford Group wanted publicity, and the alcoholics already had all the publicity they wanted. Anyway, it would be very hard to take a new guy coming in and jump on him about spiritual or religious things, don't you think? They just wouldn't accept it.

It still scares some off.

Yes. So we owe the Oxford Group a tremendous debt of gratitude, but it was necessary to make the split."

The Founding of A.A. in New York:

1934

"After Bill’s release from Towns on December 18, he and Lois started attending Oxford Group meetings at Calvary House, adjacent to Calvary Episcopal Church. The rector, Dr. Sam Shoemaker, was a leading figure in the Oxford Group. In time, Bill would come to regard this man as one of his closest friends". (Pass It On Page 127)

1935-1937

"In the fall of 1935, Bill and Lois began to hold weekly meetings on Tuesday nights in their home on Clinton Street... .... ....

182 Clinton Street, Brookyn Heights, home and meeting place for New York alcoholics in A.A.'s formative days" (Pass It On Page 162)

"While Lois later admitted that their success rate was low during the 1935-36 period at Clinton Street, she pointed out that many of the alcoholics Bill worked with during that time did recover later on. In other words, Lois said, seeds of sobriety were being planted, to take root slowly" (Pass It On Page 166)

" Lois and Bill went to Oxford Group meetings at Calvary Church from late 1934 until about 1937, and they also went to a number of Oxford Group "house parties" during those years. From 1935 on, Hank and Fitz often joined them. Tension began to develop between the main group at Calvary Church and Bill’s struggling band of alcoholics. The Oxford Group leaders resented the fact that Bill was holding separate meetings for alcoholics at Clinton street. They criticised his work with the alcoholics as being narrow and divisive.... ... ... Jack Smith, one of Sam Shoemaker’s assistants, disapproved of Bill's work and finally brought the conflict out into the open. In an informal talk at a Sunday Oxford Group gathering, he made reference to special meetings 'held surreptitiously behind Mrs. Jones Barn' The atmosphere of the Oxford Group then became 'slightly chilly' toward the Wilsons. Near to the end of 1935, the alcoholics living at the Calvary mission were instructed not to attend the meetings at Clinton Street. 'This not only hurt us, but left us disappointed in the group's leadership,' Lois remembered." (Pass It On Pages 168-169)

"This incident led Sam Shoemaker to apologize to Bill later, after he himself had broken with the Oxford Group in 1941. Shoemaker wrote: ' If you ever write the story of A.A.'s early connection with Calvary, I think it ought to be said in all honesty that we were coached in the feeling that you were off on your own spur, trying to do something by yourself, and out of the mainstream of the work. You got your inspiration from those early days, but you didn't get much encouragement from any of us, and for my own part in that stupid desire to control the Spirit, as he manifested Himself in individual people like yourself, I am heartily sorry and ashamed.' " (Pass It On Page 178, footnote)

1937

“Bill and New York alcoholics separate from Oxford Group. More than 40 alcoholics are now staying sober. (Pass It On Page 407)

“..but by counting everybody who seemed to have found sobriety in New York and Akron, they counted more than 40 alcoholics who were staying dry as a result of the program! … … … ‘Despite the fact Ebby had slipped, a benign chain reaction, one alcoholic carrying the good news to the next, had started outward from Dr. Bob and me.’ ” (Pass It On page 178)

1939

“These ex-alcoholic men and women number about one hundred at present. One Group is scattered along the Atlantic seaboard with New York as a center. Another and somewhat larger body is located in the Middle West” (Dr. W.D Silkworth M.D. (A New Approach to Psychotherapy in Chronic Alcoholism,” Journal Lancet, July 1939; A.A. Comes of Age, appendix E:a, pages 304-305)”

(our emphases)

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

aacultwatch forum daily reflections

Extracts from our forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch under thread: “aacultwatch forum daily reflections”

“Our Traditions are set down on paper. But they were written first in our hearts. For each of us knows, instinctively, I think, that AA is not ours to do with as we please. We are but caretakers to preserve the spiritual quality of our Fellowship; keep it whole for those who will come after us and have need of what has been so generously been given to us… … … So the hour has come when you must take these things into your own keeping. We ask that you guard them well, for the future of Alcoholics Anonymous may much depend on how you maintain and support these life - giving arms of service.” Bill W. (AA Grapevine November 1950, Language of the Heart page 124)

“Now there are certain things that AA cannot do for anybody, regardless of what our several desires or sympathies may be.

Our first duty, as a society is to ensure, our own survival. Therefore we have to avoid distractions and multipurpose activity. An AA group as such, cannot take on all the personal problems of its members, let alone the problems of the whole world. Sobriety – freedom from alcohol – though the teaching and practice of AA’s twelve steps, is the sole purpose of an AA group. Groups have repeated tried other activities they have always failed. We have to confine our membership to alcoholics and we have to confine our AA groups to a single purpose. If we don’t stick to these principles, we shall almost certainly collapse. And if we collapse, we cannot help anyone … …

… … Therefore I see no way of making nonalcoholic addicts into AA members, Experience says loudly that we can admit no exceptions, even though drug users and alcoholics happen to be first cousins of a sort. If we persist in trying this, I’m afraid it will be hard on the drug user himself, as well as on AA. We must accept the fact that no nonalcoholic, whatever his affliction, can be converted into an alcoholic AA member.” - Bill W. (A.A. Grapevine February 1958. Language of the Heart page 223)

“He said he was an alcoholic too… … a chemistry professor who was barely managing to hold on to his teaching post. He had come to the Oxford Group at his wife’s urging, but he could not stand their ‘nonsensical’ talk about God, nor did he like all these ‘aggressive people’ who were trying to save his soul. And while he could not accept Bill’s ‘weird’ religious experience, he certainly did agree with what Bill said about alcoholism… …he stayed drunk on and off for 11 years before finally getting sober in the A.A. program.” (Pass It On page 132)

“Finally, I am often asked why I do not publicly acknowledge my very real debt of gratitude to the Oxford Group. The answer is that, unfortunately, a vast and sometimes unreasoning prejudice exists all over this country against the O.G. and its successor M.R.A. My dilemma is that if I make such an acknowledgement, I may establish a connection between the O. G. and Alcoholics Anonymous which does not exist at the present time. I had to ask myself which was more important: that the O.G. receive credit and that I have the pleasure of so discharging my debt of gratitude, or that alcoholics everywhere have the best possible chance to stay alive regardless of who gets credit.” - Bill W. (Pass It On page 173)"

(our emphases)

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

aacultwatch forum daily reflections

Extracts from our forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch under thread: “aacultwatch forum daily reflections”

“Ebby had told his story simply, without a hint of evangelism. Although Bill continued to drink, Ebby’s visit caused something to change inside him." (Pass It On page 115)

“I saw that my friend was much more than inwardly organised. He was on a different footing… … …The word God still aroused some antipathy. When the thought was expressed that there might be a God personal to me this feeling intensified. I didn’t like the idea. I could go for such conceptions as Creative Intelligence, Universal Mind or Spirit of Nature but I resisted the idea of a Czar of the Heavens… … My friend suggested what then seemed a novel idea “Why don’t you choose your own concept of God?” – Bill W. (Alcoholics Anonymous “Big Book” page 12)

"A few days later, Ebby returned, and he brought Shep C with him. Shep, an active Oxford Group member, delivered himself a forthright message - as Bill put it: ‘He gave me the Oxford Group boast, aggressively and with all the punch he could pack. I didn’t like it at all. When they were gone, I took to the bottle and really punished it.’ ” (Pass It On page 116)

“Thank God for that. And I never pushed A.A. on anyone. Dr. Bob used to always say to me ‘Madeline, whatever you do, whoever you talk to, don’t push’…… ‘Don’t push. Just tell them that you found yourself in A.A. and how grateful you are and how things have changed. Talk about yourself. Then tell them If you need help, want help, Join A.A.” – Madeline V. ( Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers page 284)

“1939

“Early in 1939, Jack D. one of Bill Wilson’s New York pigeons, who had sobered up and gone home to Cleveland, and went to Youngstown to see an old buddy. This was Norman Y., who was totally blind from bootleg liquor and had lost his wife, family, and job. 'I was living in the basement of an apartment building, and had a mattress on the floor.' Norman said in 1977, ' I knew I was a alcoholic, but it took two hours before Jack could get me to admit I was powerless over alcohol... ... ... They talked a little bit about the Oxford Group, a little bit about Dr. Bob and Bill. They were using the Lord's Prayer... ... ... .... ... They all had jobs.' Norman said. 'Later one of the men came up to me and said, 'Let me tell you something, you blind old bat. You got no more intention of staying sober than the man on the moon. The only reason you come here is to get acquainted with these people so that you can beg. The thing for you to do is stay the hell away.' ' That was my first A.A. meeting. I went back to that mattress and I lay down and said, 'I'm gonna get drunk and go out and kill that bastard. I'll kill his wife, then kill him. No I wont. I'll kill the whole damn A.A.'... ... ...... ... ....'Then something said to me, 'You go, and go there regular. And don't take any material help from any of them'... ... In fact, when Norman finally got a job, in 1940, helping other blind people, he started to put aside ten percent of his salary to pay for speaking trips, contributions at meetings, and other A.A. expenses." (Dr. Bob and The Good Old Timers page 182-183)

“ Yet another minority was the handicapped. Norman Y., the blind A.A., had the Big Book done in Braille in 1940 and sent out from the Cleveland Library to other blind members,'There were 19 of us corresponding back then,' he said. The odd thing is, Norman never read the book himself. ‘I never read a word in A.A.’ he said. ‘You don’t have to read. You don’t have to have all these pamphlets they put out. You can learn to live this program by learning to think. A.A. is a wonderful thing to know and apply.’ he said, ‘- but in your life. You’ve got to live it out in the street. You see somebody having a little problem, help them, no matter who they are. That’s A.A.” – Norman Y. (Dr. Bob and The Good Old Timers page 249-250)”

“The Oxford Groupers had clearly shown us what to do. And, just as importantly, we had learned from them what not to do as far as alcoholics were concerned. We had found that certain of their ideas and attitudes could not be sold to alcoholics. For example, drinkers would not take pressure in any form, excepting from John Barleycorn himself. They always had to be led, not pushed. They would not stand for the rather aggressive evangelism of the Oxford Groups. And they would not accept the principle of ‘team guidance’ for their own personal lives.” (A.A. Comes of Age page 74)

"Neither Dr. Bob nor Sister Ignatia ever recorded the exact time they started treating alcoholics at St. Thomas Hospital." (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers page 185)

“Bob and Sister Ignatia began to work more and more closely through the fall of 1939 in getting drunks into St. Thomas for treatment. One thing worried her, however: Alcoholics Anonymous seemed closely connected with the Oxford Group. ‘At the time, I feared we might become involved with a religious sect of some kind,’ Sister Ignatia recalled. She then asked Father Vincent Haas, a newly ordained priest, to investigate the meetings for her… … … Fortunately, the group had moved to Kings School by this time, and father Haas was favorably impressed.” (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers” page 189)

“On the second day of the New Year, 1940, Dr. Bob wrote Bill: ‘Have finally shaken off the shackles of the Oxford Group.’" (a choice of words indicates his attitude then) (Dr. Bob and The Good Old Timers page 218)”

(Our emphases) 

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Cult misquotes and distortions

Extract from our forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch under thread: “Cults Misquotes and Distortions”

“Re: David C Icons website.

First of all, I apologize for having to quote from the pernicious site in question, but this is necessary in order to expose it for the fraud that it is. Here is what the Blessed Icon and Jim W (his side-kick/lackey) write concerning Step 3

This is a decision to go on with the program and the practical consequences are that we decide to do the other steps and try to behave in accordance with the spiritual principles of honesty, unselfishness, love and purity, and that we will follow the guidance of our sponsors.... (by David C Icons & Jim W)

Well, er.... NO actually! Reading the Big Book pages 62 & 63, which cover Step 3, there is absolutely no mention of following the "spiritual principles of honesty unselfishness, love and purity." These principles are, of course, the so-called Four Absolutes of the Oxford Group cult. But that is NOT AA. AA broke away from the Oxford Group because it was narrow, authoritarian and dogmatic. One of the aims of the Big Book authors was that it be as open, democratic and inclusive as possible. That was the intention of the writers in order to maximize effectiveness and appeal of the Program. And what exactly does it mean to follow the principle of "purity" anyway ?? What kind of purity? Religious purity? Sexual purity? Racial purity ??? (a legitimate question if we recall the time/era in which the Big Book was written, and the political events taking place at that time!) Purity indeed!

While the BB talks about following the will of a Higher Power (of MY understanding, an important caveat) and contributing more to life, and being unburdened of self ... there is no specific recommendation of the Four Absolutes. Neither does it mention following the "guidance of a sponsor". There is no reference in the BB here about following any kind of human power or personality, or anyone else needing to be involved at all.

"But it is better to meet God alone than with one who might misunderstand." (Alcoholics Anonymous page 63)

It is all about God, and moreover, God as I understand Him, again an important distinction. The "God" of David C Icons website seems to be the "God" of the Oxford Group cult. Certainly NOT my God ! This is a sly deception on David C Icon's part - trying to impose his god on everyone by cunningly inserting the 4 Absolutes and his sponsor nonsense.

And who exactly are the “We” referred to in this paragraph and elsewhere throughout site. Ah, yes, David C Icons and Jim W – they seem to be saying they represent the Book, The Program and the fellowship. Well, they need to get over themselves, because they sure don’t !

Next in David C Icons Big Book travesty we read this ...

If we have followed all the suggestions given in the before, and are ready to follow all that our sponsor suggests further, then we can answer this question with a firm, ‘Yes’. (As we said before, for most of us, we learn to trust our Higher Power by first placing our trust in our sponsor.) by David C Icons & Jim W

Really!!?? What planet are these guy on ? (Ah, yes, planet Icon.)

Let's be clear and rigorously honest. The Big Book at Step 3 makes ABSOLUTELY NO requirement of following a list of "Daily Suggestions" (largely invented by the sponsorless David B). No mention of reading the Just For Today card. No mention of having to obediently follow the whims, fancies and dictates of a human power (aka sponsor). No mention of having to trust a human being before being able to trust one's Higher Power. (I guess our more religious fellows would call this a blasphemy/idolatry?) It certainly IS sponsor-idolatry if we have to put trust in a sponsor before trust in the God of our own individual understanding. The BB talks about following the will of this Higher Power, not the suggestions of some cockamamie Vision/Joys sponsor !

Next, unbelievably, we read this...

And then we read out the prayer, while on our knees. .... (by David C Icons & Jim W)

We read out the prayer on our knees ?? Do we indeed ! Where does it say that ? Well, of course, it doesn't, but David seems to have a "thing" about getting on his knees. As the saying goes -it takes all sorts! The BB does talk further down the page about taking the step "honestly and humbly" but that does not necessarily equate with kneeling, which is a religious posture. And a posture abandoned by the early fellowship. AA isn’t a religion.

Then to cap it all..

This step was better done with a sponsor: “We found it desirable to take this step with an understanding person…” {p63} (by David C Icons & Jim W )

The Book ACTUALLY says that it "better meet God alone than with one who might misunderstand." (Alcoholics Anonymous page 63)

Well David C Icons clearly misunderstands! "Desirable" and "better" do not mean the same thing. In fact the BB seems to imply that taking the Step alone is the better option.

We do not retake Step Three as we go through the programmer. (David C Icons & Jim W )

Where does it say in the Book that "we do not retake Step Three.." Well, guess what, it doesn’t. Ain’t that a surprise ! (And I won't comment on the spelling error, we all make 'em!)

Two more points about this appalling website/travesty of the Big Book.

Prior the Step 3 prayer the Big Book says : "Many of us said to our Maker..." (Alcoholics Anonymous page 63)

Note it says - MANY of us, NOT all of us. There is no command here that we ALL have to follow this set prayer at all. This is further emphasised after the prayer with these words.

"The wording was, of course, quite optional so long as we expressed the idea..." (Alcoholics Anonymous page 63)

Thus the wording is not mandatory or compulsory in any way. The prayer itself is more a template, than a formula everyone has to slavishly follow. In fact, this whole section on Step Three in the Book seems to be saying that what really matters is sincerity and integrity, not dogma or posturing. AA does not ask us to do or believe anything that might go against our conscience or culture. This is, of course, all missing from David C Icons’ deluded epic.

CONCLUSION. So, after a detailed perusal, we have here in the section of David C Icons website concerning Step Three the following:

LIES - regarding 4 Absolutes, Daily suggestions, sponsor obedience - all allegedly needed prior to taking step 3 a la Big Book. Having to kneel while saying the Step 3 prayer. Not taking Step Three again if we wish.

DISTORTIONS and MISREPRESENTATIONS - regarding the step was “better” taken with a sponsor. Assumption by implication that the God of our understanding is the same as David C Icon's god. Assumption that this god requires a specific posture while praying. The ambiguous and misleading use of the word “we” – which doesn’t actually refer to AA at all, or the founder members, but in fact, just a couple of chumps who decided to set up the site and build up a cult around it.

OMISSIONS - the allowing of difference and diversity of wording within the context of taking Step Three according to the BB, completely overlooked and missing from David C Icons effort.

5 lies, 4 distortions/misrepresentations, and 2 omissions. Not a bad score when you consider that was in just one page of the wretched website.”

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS Later in the year/early next year we will be launching a mirror section in our forum to include AA conference questions (moderated). This will permit a more open discussion (allowing reference and links to “outside” sources) than is presently available on the AA website. Members will also be able to send private messages (and emails) to each other (also currently unavailable on the AA website)