'Strong' sponsorship or just plain bullying?

Extracts from the aacultwatch forum (old):

“My female friend visited the Hampton Wick meeting about 2 years ago. I guess the balance of the sexes has improved since then. Although I would be wary of being approached by several people wanting my phone number - it sounds similar to the cult practice of  "love bombing" -  google it.

I have another female friend in the fellowship, sober many years, who was rudely shouted at by a male member of the Hampton Wick [Friday] group - a man called John B. Apparently this fellow is under the impression that he is a "spiritual giant" and "elder stateman". He deludes himself badly. No man who shouts at and attempts to bully women is worthy of my respect, and there is nothing "spiritual" or "gigantic" about that particular "guru". This same person - John B - also told a newcomer struggling with alcoholism  that he wasnt a "real" alcoholic.  The man then left AA and ended up in hospital detox severely battered by alcohol. Luckily this man is now in recovery, well away from the dangerous and false diagnoses of John B and his ilk at Hampton Wick.

Your expression "proper, by the book" What book? Please tell me what AA book talks about a "strong sponsor".

What is a "strong" sponsor as opposed to a "weak" sponsor?

I doubt very much that any sponsor - strong or otherwise - at Hampton Wick will help you to get closer to YOUR HP. What happens at groups like Hampton Wick is that newcomers are coerced into following a sponsor, and the HP is their (the sponsor's) HP by default, not yours by discovery.

For example, my Higher Power definitely does NOT want me on my knees several times a day. I know this quite clearly because I have worked the program for many years and have a conscious contact with the HP of my understanding.

The Big Book doesn't suggest that I follow a "strong" sponsor, but a HP of my own understanding according to my conscience.

I get the impression that "strong" sponsorship is really just a cult speak euphemism for bullying and coercion. What do you think?”

Comment: Yep! We'd say bullying!

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

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PPS For new aacultwatch forum see here. Have your say!

The Four Absolutes

Extract:

“I have no doubt that David C was the author of the sexual conduct section, and the recommended reading list, and indeed much of the rest of the document as well. It is in his distinctive cold mechanical style and has his "spiritual fingerprints" all over it. The entire document is called "Companion to the Big Book" and was given to me some years ago now by a young woman who was greatly distressed at having been given this document at the Kingston Hill meeting ( now Hampton Wick [Friday]). She shared at my home group and was in tears about it. I asked her to give me the document, which she did the following week. The entire document runs into nearly 60 pages, only 2 of which I scanned and posted to you. This young lady, who has since left AA, told me that John B was most annoyed at her when she threatened to send it to GSO in York. …..... Until I saw your website I really didn’t pay all that much attention to the document, I read through it briefly …..... and then put it away. It was sitting on my book shelf largely ignored for years!

Here is a quote from the AA beginners website discussing Step 12, It is also found word for word in the document "Companion to the Big Book"

“We have also come across other ways of testing whether our behaviour is right. Perhaps they might be helpful to you: If we are faced with a choice, it is often easier to say what is not God's will. For example, it cannot be God's will that we do anything dishonest, impure, selfish or unloving (these were the guides used by a lot of the early AAs).”

Now this idea is taken from a book by Wally P called Back to Basics........ It was supposedly the practice of the early Oxford Group members to "discern" the "will of God" by applying the Four Absolutes to any idea or inspiration one had "received" during morning meditation and "quiet time"

[Note: the Four Absolutes themselves are supposedly derived from a book by Dr R Speer: “The Principles of Jesus”. The Four Absolutes. See also: What did A.A. learn from the Oxford Group and why did they leave them?]

Of course, all this stuff about what the Oxford Group did, and applying the Four Absolutes etc, arrogantly assumes that you believe in the same Higher Power - the same God - as Bill W and the founders; and indeed the same God as David C and his collaborator. Unfortunately for them I don't. I have a Higher Power of my own understanding who doesn't send cryptic messages via "quiet time" which need to be tested by applying Four Absolutes, and then have to be further endorsed and verified by an approved sponsor …...... Real awkward customer I am!”

(our edits)

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS Our usual thanks to this contributor

The natives are “revolting”: dissent in the Hampton Wick ranks

“I am writing again, this time to inform you that I have been attending the Hampton Wick ‘cult’ meeting for the past number of weeks to observe what’s taking place, and there seems to be some dissent within the ranks.

As mentioned previously on your site, the secretary has a ‘prompt sheet’ saying that one could get a copy of the Q&A leaflet, or, “better still”, speak to a sponsorship co-ordinator. On an occasion where I was in attendance at HW, a young member called …... was standing-in for the secretary. I remember ….. when …. first came in at the age of ….. about four or five years ago. He fortunately appears to prefer the AA message to the cult’s (although he still attends these particular meetings). Anyway, on this occasion, …... decided that AA’s official publication should take precedence over the sponsorship co-ordinators …..., and decided to ‘swap them around’ and suggest that reading the Q&A leaflet was the “better-still” option. After the meeting, from my observation, Billy (the member I informed you about before) charged at him from the other end of the room, pulled him to one side and instructed him to stick to the script, and told him he was “going half-measures” by 'demoting sponsorship'. Also, Alex R (Plymouth-reared GSR and sponsor for practically all the female members of the group) instructs her sponsees not to even meet members of the opposite sex for coffee until they have reached a certain point in recovery. This concerns me; after all, controlling what people do in AA is one thing, but controlling what people do outside AA is quite cultish indeed. Alex was originally sponsored at the meetings in Plymouth , her sponsor’s sponsor being none other than Wayne P.” [see Plymouth Road to Recovery on website]

Some of the dramatis personae:

John B (founder of the group - circa 1999).

Billy M (often shares about being spiritual, but this only appears to go as far as sharing)
Rupert B (Billy’s sponsor – more mainstream-AA)
Alex R (sponsors all the women)
Colin (previously a group officer but relapsed after being instructed not to take prescribed medication by a certain happy man in Ealing, don’t know where he is now…)

I have also been informed of a similar incident at the Tuesday meeting in Richmond [Ormond Road], where, at a group conscience, instead of members nominating each other or themselves for service positions, Billy allegedly took over the group conscience and elected the group officers himself, rather than having the group decide, with most of them being his sponsees. This is a breach of traditions one, two and twelve. A group member told me that he was discouraged by Billy from putting his own name forward for the secretary position, being told that he was only putting himself forward because of his ‘ego’. Instead, the secretary is a young girl called C, who is a sponsee of Alex’s, and the poor girl has been influenced by members of the Ealing gang. Many of these younger (in the sense of clean time) members are completely unaware of the true AA message, with many of them saying that the AA message is “get a sponsor”. “

Editor's comment: And so “the show” must go on and on and on..... “Self-will run RIOT”

(our thanks to our reporter)

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS. More to come on this one! You can bet on it!