Another encounter with the cult

“Thank you for your reply,

When you mentioned the term 'ex-cult members', it made me realise that I have never told you my story around all this - you might find it useful for either the website or your own information.

Having been in contact with AA for about six weeks, I had my last drink on December 30th, 1989. I am an accountant and have worked on a semi-freelance basis since the late seventies.

The first meeting I attended was in Kingston-Upon-Thames in Surrey in November 1989. My memory isn't what it used to be, but, for whatever reason, I have no difficulty in remembering my first meeting, or seeing my doctor with regards to my drinking - I remember the latter, because it was the day the Berlin Wall came down. My doctor suggested I attended a few AA meetings and see if I liked what I saw. After stalling on the idea for a while, I went into Kingston on a Tuesday evening and attended an AA meeting in the Quaker Hall on Eden Street; this meeting no longer takes place here, but now at St. Luke's Church, Gibbon Road (also in Kingston). A man called Bob (who would eventually become my sponsor) gave me his number (all landlines back then), and invited me back the following week.

Some time after this, I began doing some contract work for a friend's company, so was travelling to his company's office in Elvaston Place, SW7 on Mondays and Wednesdays. I was informed, by someone within my local meeting, that there was a meeting in the Scottish Episcopal Church on Pont Street on a Monday night. From here, I was encouraged to attend a meeting in Collingham Road the coming Wednesday. As both meetings were very close to my office at the time, I couldn't think of a reason not to. I was two months sober or so at the time and felt that it would help. By this point, I had heard talk of sponsorship and the steps in the meetings I had been to so far but felt it was better to get my feet on the ground in AA before venturing in that direction.

There was a much larger crowd in this and the Pont Street meetings than in Kingston and Staines where I had previously attended, but I figured that, as we were in Central London, this was inevitable. I walked down to the crypt and sat to the side of the speaker's table, facing inward. the rest is all a blur but I remember people asking me for my number. I remember at my first meeting people gave me their numbers - at this one they asked me to give mine. I didn't find this particularly ominous at the time. One thing I did notice was that the sharing was somewhat harmonious, somewhat seemingly word-for-word. I didn't share in this meeting; nevertheless I went home, glad for having been to a meeting.

Things became slightly awry when, at around six o'clock the following morning, I received a telephone call from a man called David (whom I now understand to be David C)[aka “The Icon” – see site for more info] telling me he was calling me on the advice of his sponsor. I asked him what I could do for him (I, for a moment, thought he'd been pointed in my direction because of an accounting query!) his response was "I was just told to call you". That was pretty much it. After a brief exchange of how-are-you-s, the conversation was over, with my wife and our young son dishevelled after being awoken abruptly. I was working at home this day, and as the morning went on I shrugged off the incident and carried on with my day, before receiving a telephone call from an individual called John C which essentially took the same course. I got a third call that day from someone whose name I can't remember (who was also quite new into the programme), and thought this was all rather odd and maybe there had been some sort of mistake and that they thought I was someone else.

I continued to attend both meetings, as well as the Tuesday meeting in Kingston and occasional others in my area and decided that this man called Bob (who passed away in 2001) was the man I wanted as a sponsor. Shortly after this, I attended the Vision meeting one Wednesday and I was asked if I had a sponsor yet. I affirmed and said the name 'Bob the Beard' (as was his name). The people I spoke to did not know who he was, thus insisted that it would probably be best if I found a sponsor from this meeting. Before I could answer, I was 'paired up' with this man called Tony and was informed he would sponsor me. I declined the polite offer and went home after the meeting. The next morning I got the usual 'phone calls (albeit later in the day after I asserted six o'clock was too early). This is where things became conspicuous: I was asked what I had been up to so far that day. My response was that I had been doing accounting work all morning. My 'correspondent' seemed quite surprised that I hadn't got on my knees that morning and prayed, or that I hadn't called a newcomer that day, or that I hadn't called my sponsor. I ended the 'phone call feeling like I'd been slapped in the face and decided to call my own sponsor to discuss this. My sponsor asserted that, seeing as his physical health prevented him from getting down on his knees anyway it would be wrong of him to tick me off for not doing so. By the next day I had disregarded the whole thing.

Six months into my sobriety, my wife left me. She decided that she wanted to make a fresh start in her home town in Staffordshire. In spite of my emotional upset, I remained sober and the divorce procedures were relatively smooth and we sold the house and I moved to a smaller house in Ashford, Middlesex. On some days I found this more difficult than others and embarked on a series of counselling sessions. At Collingham Road one Wednesday I shared towards the end of the meeting that I was struggling with the emotional side of the divorce and that I was receiving counselling and asserted that I had not felt like drinking in this time thanks to my Higher Power, and this set off a number of murmurs from those in attendance. Once the meeting ended I got up to head for the toilet and was literally grabbed by the arm and was told by David C and one other that I shouldn't be sharing about my emotions in the meeting. Two more 'Joys' folk joined this and one man called Paul asked me why I was seeing a counsellor when I had a 'so-called sponsor' who would perform this duty for me. I told him that it was, in fact, my sponsor who suggested I began counselling. I was then told that I was being fed a watered-down version of AA, and that I would never be well if I continued this. "Great", I thought, "I've been attending AA for six months only to find I'm not going to get well". I told them that I would continue the counselling for the time being, at which point a man called Tony told me that I was "probably going to turn up next week, pissed out of my fucking head" (quote). The next morning I spoke to my sponsor and he was genuinely shocked and I was sickened. I shortly received a verbal amend from David C, which he read off a piece of paper.

I never attended the Collingham Road meeting after that, but, about three years later (and long after my contract in SW7 expired), I was informed that a meeting had been formed in Eaton Square after some individuals had left the Joys meeting. I decided to attend, thinking that maybe these people had left for the same reason. This was around 1994 and I recognised some of the people there and got talking to a few. I only attended this particular meeting on occasion (maybe once a month) until around 2001, when I moved away to South Wales. I also attended the infamous Richmond meeting between 1998, the year of its creation, and when I moved. It was attended by four men in particular: John B, Donald, 'Billy the Post' and a man interestingly known as 'Skittles' and their sponsees. I also attended Kingston Hill (now Hampton Wick)[Hampton Wick Friday – to be distinguished from the Monday and Thursday AA meetings at the same venue]. These were very similar to the Joys meeting, but, from my observation, less intrusive (or so I thought). These men had attended the Joys meeting and Donald and I had kept in contact during my 'sabbatical period'. What I didn't realise was that these meetings had a similar agenda of both sponsorship idolatry and dictated meeting structures. There were strong links between these people and David C (from the Joys) with his sponsees, among others Happy Dennis and Rupert (later sponsored by Donald). I remember Rupert being told not to pick up his young children from an after-school activity because he needed to be at the meeting an hour early. David C said the only thing he could do was to leave them waiting until after the meeting to be picked up, as his sobriety depended on him being an hour early for the meeting.

I lived and worked in Cardiff, whilst attending meetings until 2006, when I returned. The only times I left Wales were to visit my son over Christmas and his birthday, and to attend my sponsor's funeral in Hampton Court in 2001. I moved back to Twickenham in 2006 to find nothing had changed. Rupert had set up a meeting on Twickenham Green on a Thursday called 'One Primary Purpose' (possibly called such as an aim to condition the sharing, but it would appear to be a mainstream meeting with no involvement from Rupert these days), and the Tolworth meeting had also been formed. I have attended both meetings in my time. The Tolworth meeting worried me more as I heard that Newcomers were being assigned sponsors from this meeting, regardless of where they were in their voyage into AA at the time.

I still attend Richmond and Hampton Wick on occasion, more for observation than anything else. For my recovery I prefer meetings in Teddington, Twickenham and Staines. I have not had a sponsor since Bob died in 2001, but I have many friends and confidantes within AA with whom I can share and seek advice.

I'm sure none of this is new to you, but you may find it useful for background or your stories section.

Best wishes as always,

R..........”

(our edits)

Comment: none required

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

A newcomer's tale (Richmond Tuesday: Ormond Road)

“Hi fellas,

My name is S. and I am an alcoholic. A month ago I went to my first AA meeting in 18 months. I didn't touch a drop of alcohol in that time. The reason I hadn't been to a meeting for 18 months? Because of the cult - but in that 18 months I was struggling daily and eventually I felt the need to give AA another go. My friend R says he wrote to you recently and he told me all about your website and having looked at some of the accounts I thought I’d share mine.

I first came to AA in September 2009 and I was wrecked. I live in Twickenham and went to my first ever meeting at Richmond Bridge friendship club on a Monday evening. After the meeting I swapped numbers with a very young man (who at the time I felt was too young to be an alky but that's not for me to judge) and he insisted I went to the Tuesday night meeting at Ormond Road in Richmond the following evening. I was still very new to AA and was keen to try more meetings. I think he was just trying to be friendly and get me involved but he insisted I went to THIS meeting on a Tuesday. I went along anyway and got a cup of tea and many people asked me for my number. One of them was called B and he said 'can I take your number? My sponsor tells me to take newcomers numbers and call them'. He seemed to be the ringleader even though he had a sponsor at the meeting. Everyone at that meeting shared about how they had a sponsor and I didn't have one but I wasn't ready. I told them I wasn't ready and I was asked if I wanted to stay sick. It wasn't B who asked me that but it was a guy called R who was a sponsee of his. I've seen R at meetings recently and he seems to think nobody else in AA has ever heard of the steps, the Big Book or a higher power concept. Apparently their sponsor/sponsee relationship ended in a near punch up a while back. B gave me the "six suggestions" and told me I should also go to meetings on Kingston hill and Tolworth and what seemed like a hundred different meetings in Ealing (and guess what he said? 'Look out for happy Dennis because he's good) and he said they carry a stronger message there. I was taking anti depressants at the time (and still am) and B told me I should go to my doctor and ask him to 'unprescribe' me my medication. After the meeting we all went to Pizza express across the road from the meeting, and one evening as I was leaving the café B told me I'd been elected to do the washing up after the meeting and that it was now my home group. I wasn't comfortable about it because I wasn't sure if AA was right for me and I couldn't even go next week anyway, so I missed the next meeting and was phoned by B and he told me I needed to put my "home group" first. I continued to go to the meeting for the next three weeks and it all went okay until I was quizzed in pizza express afterwards as to whether or not I was doing the six suggestions and I said I wasn't as the idea didn't appeal to me and B and his mate who everyone seemed to refer to as S were telling me I was half measures and I was not well by AA's standards and B was even shouting across the table at me: 'IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO THIS YOU ARE GOING TO DRINK AND STAY F-ING SICK', which is odd as he always shared about being spiritual. He later 'apologised' but then continued to shout at me as if I were a schoolboy and he were a demon headmaster. This all upset me very much but I felt insulted when S told me that I didn't have to do any of those things, even though he'd gone to town on me over how 'lazy' and selfish I was...all just to say that I didn't have to do any of that stuff...some 'suggestions' those are. Afterwards I decided I was through with AA and didn't go back to ANY meetings for 18 months. I was so upset that I wanted to go back to the church and tell the vicar what was going on in his church hall. I also had to change my number as I was getting many phone calls every day from the same few people asking me where I was and they often said my life depended on that particular meeting.

After I came back to AA I was still broken even though I was dry and physically better, but simply not drinking was a struggle and I decided to try again and hope I didn't see B or R or S. I turned up at another meeting and I met someone who I met at my first meeting, he was my friend who wrote to you before, and he told me all about a Vision for You and the big meeting in Eton Square and aacultwatch and I thought I'd write. I remember B talking a lot about what he referred to as 'the vision meeting'.

Before I was so angry and hurt that I wouldn't have given two hoots if it destroyed AA but I found there was more to AA than this cult...a lot more. I'm still very angry now which is why I remember it like it was yesterday but I think your cause is worthy. Also, they know about aacultwatch at the Ormond Rd meeting and they look at it with a great deal of contempt and speak derisively of its 'unspiritual ways' - because they know what spiritual is!!!! I think they feel that way because deep down they know the score. I'm no Big Book buff but they remind me of the boy whistling in the dark to keep up his spirits. I do hope you publish this on your website as people need to know what goes on at that meeting. I've been to a lot of meetings around Richmond and Twickenham since I've been back and I have not seen B or S at any of them because they don't go to any other meetings round here. In fact there were loads of people who only turn up at that meeting even though there's a meeting every day in Richmond and some of them don't live in Richmond and if I remember correctly B lived miles away from the meeting. there are a few leaflets advertising a convention in Canterbury floating round meetings here. my current sponsor tells me its an unofficial convention and the guys at the Tuesday meeting are the ones who distribute them round here and some leaflets got dropped off at my home group (which is not a cult meeting) but we put them straight into the recycling box.

I think I was lucky as anyone else might have been too hurt to come back to AA. I never wish to go back to that meeting and I would advise any newcomers to think twice before they go. I suggest (forgive me for using that word) that you add the meeting to your cult where to find page. It's a real shame as a lot of the people I saw there were genuinely nice and had been around for years.

Keep up the good work

S”

Comment: Unfortunately this is a pretty typical account of those who have the misfortune to fall into the hands of the cult (with the usual mix of “love bombing “ and coercion in order to gain compliance!) This is NOT what carrying the AA message is about!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

(our particular thanks to this member for their courage in speaking out)

PS Contact details for the venue are included below (for complaints):

Richmond & Putney Unitarian Church
Ormond Road
Richmond
Surrey
TW10 6TH

Rev Linda Hart: revlahart@gmail.com
Vestry phone number (Rev Linda Hart): 0208 332 9675

More on the cult "network" - Richmond, Tolworth ....

"Thank you for your reply,

John B does indeed attend Hampton Wick and he was one of the founders of the Richmond meeting along with a chap called Donald (who was sponsored by David B) and a few others. From my memory I remember Hampton Wick was opened on Kingston Hill shortly after the Richmond meeting was formed in 1997 or 1998. Another meeting was formed from the Richmond meeting: Tolworth Newcomers - a Thursday night meeting with printed literature cards containing 'the six suggestions' displayed on the top table where the secretary and chair sit. They also used to attend a restaurant after the meeting but they opted to have a food buffet in the hall after the meeting instead. Also, most worryingly, you are assigned a sponsor at this meeting. If you are new you have your number extracted from you and then told who your sponsor is going to be. When I was new to AA over 20 years ago I had great difficulty in saying no, so I can imagine how newcomers feel at this "newcomers" meeting.

I am personally fairly familiar with the Ealing meetings myself. What's been going on is Happy Dennis has made there be four meetings a day in Ealing, most of them being at either Bayham Road or Green Man Lane. Unfortunately some long-standing AA meetings have been dwindling and thinning-out to the point of closing as a result of an earlier meeting opening round the corner. Keep an eye on the Northfields meeting on Sunday morning; this meeting is a long-standing AA meeting, or should I say 'was', but it seems to be getting taken over by various sponsees of the Ealing brigade.

Keep an eye out for a guy called Richard E; he is the one who started the cult within CA and is famous (or infamous) in AA among West and South-West London. He is exactly like David B (I met David B on several occasions); when he attends AA meetings (which is uncommon now as he mainly does CA), he introduces himself as a 'recovered' alcoholic and then proceeds to tell the meeting that they're doing it wrong. He sponsors many individuals at once, and they are taken through the steps and begin sponsoring others after around four weeks of sobriety. Many of them relapse. He will point out to his sponsees who in the meeting is and is not alcoholic. He elects himself to sponsor others (i.e. "I will be your sponsor"). Every sponsee of his is required to attend a 'Big Book Study' at his house, where all he does is gets them to highlight the parts of the Big Book which he thinks are relevant (although he doesn't highlight the bit in The Family afterward which says "Now about health..." or the part in Working with Others that talks about not rushing the newcomer). He brainwashes his sponsees with the '3% recovery rate' (or is it 2%? I think he changes it each time), and as a result, his sponsees all attend meetings with chips on their shoulders and share that everyone else is doing it wrong, or 'not really an alcoholic'. His sponsees are not allowed to attend NA meetings, and the only AA meeting they are allowed to attend seems to be Hampton Wick Friday. He tells everyone (not just his sponsees) that they should not take medication. One of his sponsees was secretary at the Saturday morning meeting at Bayham Road and one time when I was there he shared "my sponsor told me what to do, he told me which meetings to go to and he told me how to recover" (does that sound like an oxymoron?). You people of aacultwatch would probably assume this is cult standard, but what worries me is that I was talking to one of Richard's sponsees after a meeting the other week in Ealing and he was telling me how Richard called him and said "pick me up and give me a lift into Kingston", and when the sponsee said he was busy, Richard apparently responded "I am your sponsor. You will give me a lift to Kingston". If there's anything that makes me think of a cult it's this; not only is controlling what people do in AA he's controlling what they do outside AA. There is unfortunately a lot of contempt towards him in the Richmond/Twickenham/Teddington area - an area that is otherwise harmonious within AA, with a wide fellowship.

Sorry I've waffled, but I thought it would be of interest, seeing as there wasn't any mention of Richard on the site. Some individuals have stood up to him, but most people shrug it off and say "I can only keep my side of the street clean".

Glad to be of service. May it continue.

... [name omitted]"

(our thanks again to this contributor)

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)