The reports of our demise, we believe, have been greatly exaggerated!

From time to time we're fascinated to discover that we are apparently NO MORE! Now you can only imagine our surprise to discover via Twitter that we were deceased .. or failing that – and even worse perhaps - silenced by threat of imminent lawsuits! (As we have reported before the “L” word has been flourished in our direction on a couple of occasions but, to our great disappointment nothing has subsequently materialised. Just think what we could do with all that publicity!)

Well we can only say our death was a bit of a shock. But as the numbness wore off grief finally hit us right between the eyes, and we collapsed to the floor weeping and wailing and generally gnashing our teeth.. Oh woe we cried quite overcome by the realisation of our own dread mortality. And then we paused to reflect on how frail life is, and how little we appreciate it before it is so cruelly wrenched from our grasp. But now death has wrapped its awful shroud about our broken bodies and we are cast down to naught with all remaining but air and dust! Well we don't think you'll be in the least surprised to discover the whole thing was a bit of a downer from our point of view. “Misery is optional” or so we've heard our little pointed headed friends say! Well you try reading your own obituary and that'll put quite a different perspective on things! After a little while though, and after the maudlin stage had come and gone, it suddenly occurred to us there might be something rather incongruous about our present state. Let's face it! When the grim reaper arrives the last one to be greatly affected is the deceased themselves! So why all this sorrow, and why this grief? We should be long past this by now! And then daylight finally dawned, and the penny dropped! Perhaps we weren't dead after all? Applying those tried and tested methods we placed a mirror to our mouths to seek some sign of those last vestiges of life! Then we pinched ourselves and to our great relief exclaimed loudly “Ow!! It would seem that we were still in possession of all our mortal faculties after all. Not dead but alive and well! Oh what joy, what bliss! How wonderful it is to be restored to the land of the living once more! Our delight knew no bounds and we were quite transported; now we were indeed “happy, joyous and free”! Dancing around the office we rejoiced in our new found vitality and then poured scorn on the foolishness of those who would believe us dead, and with all our friends left so bereaved!

Shame on you we say!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous – and fighting fit!)

PS Our Twitterer is clearly a fan of Francis Ford Coppola so not a complete tw** (rhymes with gnat) after all! But think well before making us an offer “we can't refuse!”

Tradition Three, Grapevine, July, 1952, Bill W

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Tradition Two, Grapevine, May, 1952, Bill W

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Tradition One, Grapevine, April, 1952, Bill W

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“Musts” ….. or not! The non-dogmatic approach!

See AA History Lovers for more

Extract:

“The only "definitive must statements" in the Big Book apply to the people who wrote it; they were scrupulously careful not to impose those imperatives on anyone else.

(See the annotations in the original manuscript to note how the compilers of the Big Book and their advisers bent over backwards to take out prescriptive language: The Book That Started It All, Hazelden 2010).

"The Big Book says 'Here are the Steps we took' ... so we'd better took 'em." (Where did I read that?) It's sound advice, but not compulsory. Let's stick to the history.

"You may already have asked yourself why it is that all of us became so very ill from drinking. Doubtless you are curious to discover how and why, in the face of expert opinion to the contrary, we have recovered from a hopeless condition of mind and body. If you are an alcoholic who wants to get over it, you may already be asking - 'What do I have to do?' It is the purpose of this book to answer such questions specifically. We shall tell you what we have done ..." (Big Book, chapter 2, There is a Solution, emphasis added).

The logical, grammatical answer to the question, "What do I have to do?" is, "You must do this" (E.g. Acts 16:30-31: "[The jailer] brought them out and said, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' So they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved' ...)"

Bill W. said to Fr Marcus O'Brien, "It must (sic!) never be forgotten that the purpose of Alcoholics Anonymous is to sober up alcoholics. There is no religious or spiritual requirement for membership. No demands are made on anyone. An experience is offered which members may accept or reject. It is up to them." (Quoted by Robert Fitzgerald, SJ, in The Soul of Sponsorship; Hazelden, 1995).

"Alcoholics Anonymous does not demand that you believe anything. All of its 12 Steps are but suggestions..." (12&12, Step Two). "We beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start." (Big Book, chapter five, How It Works). Anyone who has to beg cannot demand.

This exchange took place between Winston Churchill, when he was UK prime minister, and his education minister R A B Butler; " 'What could be done', wondered Churchill, 'to make children more patriotic? Tell them Wolfe won Quebec,' he mused. Butler replied, 'I would like to influence what was taught in schools but this was always frowned on.' 'Of course,' Churchill rejoined. 'Not by instruction or order but by suggestion'." (Source unknown).

AA's 12 Steps are "guides to progress", suggested - not mandatory (Big Book, chapter five); the word instructions does not appear anywhere in the first 164 pages of the Big Book.

"All faiths need a sacred text. It should be independent of the High Priesthood, a keeper of memories, prophetic in judgment and imagination, and with a touch of irreverent wit. It's a big help if the faithful come to believe it is well nigh infallible." (Robert Runcie, former Anglican archbishop of Canterbury).

"The ideal spiritual director (sponsor?) is summed up in this reflection by Paul of Hungary (12th century). 'Let him be inclined to correct kindly and to bear the weight himself. He must be gentle and affectionate, merciful to the faults of others. He shall act with discernment in different cases. Let him aid his penitent with prayer, alms and other good works. He is to help him by calming his fears, consoling him, giving him back hope and, if need be, by reproving him. Let him show compassion in his words and teach by his deeds. Let him take part in the sorrow, if he wishes to share in the joy. He must inculcate perseverance'." (Last two entries: sources unknown, but copied into my Big Book over the years).”

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Editorial: On the 12th Tradition, Grapevine, November, 1948, Bill W

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Editorial: On the 11th Tradition, Grapevine, October, 1948, Bill W

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Editorial: On the 10th Tradition, Grapevine, September, 1948, Bill W

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Editorial: On the 9th Tradition, Grapevine, August, 1948, Bill W

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Editorial: On the 8th Tradition, Grapevine, July, 1948, Bill W

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aacultwatch forum daily reflections

Extracts from our forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch under thread: “aacultwatch forum daily reflections”

“(The original strong and simple group purpose was thus dissipated in fruitless controversy and divergent aims.) And again, ‘Some [of the Washingtonian local groups] dipped into their treasuries to finance their own publications. There was no overall editorial policy”. -Bill W. (AA Grapevine August 1945. Language of the Heart page 5)

“We are sure that if the original Washingtonians could return to this planet they would be glad to see us learning from their mistakes. They would not regard our observations as aimless criticism. Had we lived in their day we might have made the same errors. Perhaps we are beginning to make some of them now.” - Bill W. (AA Grapevine August 1945. Language of the Heart page 5) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washingtonian_movement

“We envisaged the writing of a uniform A.A. literature, the development of a sound public relations policy..” – Bill W. 1962 (Concept I)

“Our literature is a principle means by which A.A. recovery, unity, and service are facilitated” – Bill W. 1962 (Concept XI).

"1939, Psychiatrist Dr. W.D. Silkworth M.D.

“These ex-alcoholic men and women number about one hundred at present. One Group is scattered along the Atlantic seaboard with New York as a center. Another and somewhat larger body is located in the Middle West… … … The fellowship is entirely indifferent concerning the individual manner of spiritual approach so long as the patient is willing to turn his life and his problems over to the care and direction of his creator. The patient may picture the Deity in any way he likes. No effort whatever is made to convert him to some particular faith or creed. Many creeds are represented among the group and the greatest harmony prevails. It is emphasized that the fellowship is non-sectarian and that the patient is entirely free to follow his own inclination. Not a trace of aggressive evangelism is exhibited… … … Considering the presence of the religious factor, one might expect to find an unhealthy emotionalism and prejudice. This is not the case, however; on the contrary there is an instant readiness to discard old methods for new ones which produce better results.” Dr. W.D Silkworth M.D. (A New Approach to Psychotherapy in Chronic Alcoholism,” Journal Lancet, July 1939; A.A. Comes of Age, appendix E:a, pages 304-305)"

"1942

“Most of us in Akron didn’t like all this praying,’ said Oscar. ‘We’d had enough of it in the Oxford Group. I still don’t like praying in A.A. I don’t like the Serenity Prayer. New York brought it in, and we resented it. We thought they were bringing back the Oxford Group” - Akron 1942, recalled by Oscar W. (Dr.Bob and the Good Old Timers, page 271)"

(our emphases)

Comment: So there is some point to AA Conference Approved literature after all!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Editorial: On the 7th Tradition, Grapevine, June, 1948, Bill W

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Editorial: On the 6th Tradition, Grapevine, May, 1948, Bill W

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Editorial: On the 5th Tradition, Grapevine, April, 1948, Bill W

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Conference Questions (2012) forum discussion (contd)

Committee No. 3

Question 2:

“Would the Fellowship review and re-affirm what constitutes an AA Group, within the Fellowship in Great Britain with specific reference to Traditions 4 - 6?

Background

The Traditions

Preamble

Concepts

Consider the contribution to the carrying of the message, financial and practical implications when deliberating each question.”

Extract:

“Tradition 4

Linking the subject of this post to the above posts and to my post on page 2 of Committee 1, Question 1, regarding the frequently asked questions by professionals on the GSO (GB) website and the bad press reports in the national press, what constitutes an AA group would consider what effect its own affairs have on other groups and AA as a whole.

It should be a serious concern to all AA members that some federal and state courts in the USA have ruled that "Adherence to the AA fellowship entails engagement in religious activity and religious proselytisation." and that “AA is a religion.” (Source: national press report, Great Britain); and that one of the frequently asked questions by professionals in Great Britain is: “Is it a cult? (Source: GSO website: Information for professionals: F.A.Q.s: http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/professionals/?PageID=84

Something is going seriously wrong with AA public relations and some groups that call themselves AA groups are responsible for this. Many alcoholics of agnostic, atheist, or religious beliefs other than Christianity are being turned away from AA. This is because some groups that call themselves AA groups are adopting the doctrines of outside published literature which implicate the AA program as being evangelical Christian.

Although I do not know much about law, I think there may be legal implications for AA as a whole. If in future more courts continue to rule that AA is religious, then it will be increasingly difficult for AA to say that it is not religious. There could be a possibility that in future AA World Services and the General Service Board in Great Britain could be court ordered to remove statements in official AA literature which state that AA is not religious. Some AA groups or the General Service Board and GSO could be held in contempt of court if they then continued to distribute the official AA pamphlets where a court ruled AA is religious. How can an organisation state that it is not religious where the law states that it is?

Some information on court rulings can be searched on the internet by using the search terms: “USA court rulings AA is a religion” and “AA cult”

What constitutes an AA group would not give the impression that it is religious or that it is a cult. It would have the AA structure of an up side down triangle. Power in the group would be in the democratic majority vote of the whole group, inclusive to all group members, irrespective of their length of sobriety. According to Tradition Two an AA group would not have a pyramid structure of a cult. Power in the group would not be in a leading personality; a “guru” or “grand sponsor” or in a small steering committee composed of his or her friends. Nor would the group imply teaching of the 12 steps as a religious doctrine, or try to increase its membership by coercion or solicitation. This would give the appearance of it being a religious cult. Evidently, from the national press reports and courts, some groups are behaving in this manner and they are giving the public this impression; therefore they are affecting other AA groups and AA as a whole by damaging overall AA public relations. Such groups are outside the bounds of the General Warranties of Conference which safeguard AA as a whole, and therefore, they cannot call themselves AA groups.

Concept 12, Warranty 5: “We have no doctrine that has to be maintained. We have no membership that has to be enlarged. We have no authority that has to be supported. We have no prestige, power or pride that has to be satisfied.”

Concept 12, warranty 5: “If we recognize that religion is the province of the clergy and the practice of medicine is for doctors, then we can helpfully cooperate with both.”

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Editorial: On the 4th Tradition, Grapevine, March, 1948, Bill W

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Sponsorship – the discussion continues.....

See AA History Lovers for more

Extracts:

“…....When I read all of ….. writings, they compel me to remember that I cannot be a good sponsor by attacking and shaming my sponsee. I cannot be a good sponsor by accusing and belittling my sponsee in ways that further overwhelm that poor person with an even greater sense of crippling guilt. Above all, if I start trying to "play God" with the person I am sponsoring, I will end up dooming my own soul.”

“So in the case of the question "what are AA sponsors supposed to do," what I have wanted to see for a long time, is a collection of case studies of how AA sponsors actually did their job at different points in AA history, including such cases as:

(1) What Ebby actually did with Bill W. at the beginning, giving the concrete details.

(2) What Father Ed Dowling actually did with Bill W. (using the book by Robert Fitzgerald S.J., The Soul of Sponsorship: The Friendship of Fr. Ed Dowling, S.J. and Bill Wilson in Letters, for the concrete details).

(3) Concrete, specific details from the book Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers, of how Dr. Bob (and Anne Smith) actually worked with specific newcomers.

(4) Does Mitchell K's book on Clarence Snyder have enough concrete information on how Clarence sponsored newcomers, to write anything useful on this particular topic?

(5) Father Ralph Pfau's autobiography, Prodigal Shepherd, has lots of concrete detail about the things which Doherty Sheerin in Indianapolis did in sponsoring him. A lot of knowledgeable people back at that time regarded Dohr [sic] as being up there with Dr. Bob in terms of knowing how to sponsor alcoholics effectively and teach them real spirituality. He taught them by his own personal example -- not by preaching or haranguing them, or accusing them of worshiping door knobs and other such belittling techniques, which past a certain point are only ways to try to beef up our own very weak egos). Very few AA people are going to be able to rise to Dohr's level, but we still need examples of extraordinary virtue to point us in the direction in which we need to make personal progress.”

“..... But paradoxically, a sponsor can only become a "God-bearer" and become "transparent to God" by speaking with ruthless honesty about all his or her own shortcomings and failings, and the difficulties he or she meets in actually living the principles of the program. The minute sponsors start going on an ego trip and start trying to "play God" in too much of a presumptuously self-important kind of way, they cease to have any major value as spokesmen for God.”

(our emphases)

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Editorial: On the 3rd Tradition, Grapevine, February, 1948, Bill W

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Editorial: On the 2nd Tradition, Grapevine, January, 1948, Bill W

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Editorial: On the 1st Tradition, Grapevine, December, 1947, Bill W

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Are you AC (Alcoholically Correct)?

SHARING GUIDELINES!

“Some years ago, when I checked into the hospital, they asked me about my drinking. I told them that I had 4 Jameson on the rocks every night. I omitted something small, they were 4 triples. Like most of my life, I told half the story.  

Then I came into AA. I tried to take down the barriers and let people know who I am. The problem I ran into was that some of my problems were not directly related to alcohol/drinking. For example, when I arrived, I was taking Zoloft. When I mentioned this fact at a meeting, I was told by an “Old Timer” [someone who's refrained from committing suicide by drinking alcohol for a significant period of time] that I should not talk about that at an AA meeting. I was confused. If I stuck to my drinking, I was only telling part of my story, BUT, if I talked about other things I was saying things that were not talked about at AA meetings. Talking about my drinking was “easy” because it was only part of my story.

With time, I realized that I could talk about murdering my parents, but not talk about trying marijuana? I could talk about “lust” but not about “sex addiction.”

It is very difficult to be AC [ Alcoholically Correct ] at an AA meeting. There are no written guidelines about what NOT to share.

With this in mind, I have ventured on a project to create, primarily for newcomers, some guidelines about sharing. I don’t want them to have to experience what I did …. Having someone come to me after a meeting and telling me that I should not share on what I did because “…this is AA and we don’t share about _______ at AA meetings…”

Realizing my own limitations, I thought that I would seek advice from those who are more knowledgeable than myself in formulating these guidelines. So, I am asking you to contribute to this project.

When it is completed, I will print it up and hand it out at meetings, especially to newcomers so that they will know how to share properly at AA meetings.

Below is space for you to list those topics which are not appropriate at AA meetings, and/or other ways in which it may be inappropriate to share.”

THINGS NOT TO SHARE	HOW NOT TO SHARE

Have fun! We reckon this list is going to go on “ad infinitum” at the very least!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS And cheers to the member who sent this gem in!

Links and downloads

Alcoholism: A Social Construct, Poikolainen, K, Journal of Drug Issues, Vol. 12(4), 361-367, Fall, 1982

The Alcoholic Patient – His Needs as met by Alcoholics Anonymous and the Caseworker, Van Suetendael, PT, Military Medicine, Vol.124, 851-855, 1959

The Social Worker and the Alcoholics Anonymous Program in a State Hospital, Latimer, R, Journal of Psychiatric Social Work, Vol.22, 175-180, 1953

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Bullying in East Kent

We quote:

“Dear fellas.

At last weeks East Kent Intergroup AGM which I attended, there was a report from a woman who had been subjected to bullying by a male member of the fellowship in East Kent.

This is not a new problem and one where it was suggested that guideline 17 be read out at the beginning of every meeting. If matters continued, outside organisations like the police should be involved.

What is noted is a group member can call a group conscience at any time during a meeting but what also should be noted is this bully sometimes corners his female victims outside meetings.

The treasurer of the intergroup also read out an email from someone who decided to leave a group where this bully was bullying female members. It was sent to the treasurer as he was requesting a receipt for a contribution but was leaving as a group treasurer.

The content was :-

My Dear …...

Just a question of a receipt for £### sent by me on behalf of ###### Wed.

I have now left this meeting as I could no longer accept the personal behaviour of a member.

He was someone I was powerless over,who I come to realise I certainly could not change.

He was a bully to female members and that was unacceptable, that I found quite shocking because he should of known better, and was talking the talk but his ego it would appear,stopped him walking the walk, if you can understand. I also know that he was economical with the truth.(Dallas)[a reference to the Primary Purpose movement - see below]

Any way mate that was my shit and I decided that it was best to go before I smacked him in mouth! not PC AND IN NO WAY SPIRITUAL 'EH?.

This bullies behaviour is not acceptable and he evidently has bullied officers of EKIG as well.

What was also shocking on the evening is directly after this was read out a member of another Group felt it an appropriate time to advertise in a 'matter of fact' way a forthcoming convention.

Eh HELLO! - it seems some group members in EKIG think its OK to gloss over this behaviour.

I don't know what's more shocking - the bully, them or both.

Please can you publicise this on your website - for the record this bully is an American who clearly sponsors himself.

Women - please watch out for him and remember he is a bully and his behaviour is unacceptable.

Keep up the good work fellas”

Comment: Well three guesses who this might be! No.. Give up! OK then.... It's none other than the local guru-in-residence and Big Book aficionado (or one of them at least!) Harry K... aka Batman. However Harry's reputation has spread far and wide already so this is hardly news! Still we're happy to do our bit in bringing such malefactors to the fellowship's attention. It is so often the case that those who preach the loudest seldom live up even to the most modest of expectations .. and Harry is no exception! Still the word is that he's defected to Cocaine Anonymous where apparently he's busy lecturing them on recovery … leather bound Big Book and all.... As they say - our gain is their loss!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS Guidelines are all very well! But they're not much use unless they're IMPLEMENTED!

PPS Apparently Dover Monday is still ruminating about whether to break its affiliation with the Primary Purpose movement. Its group details are still listed with this outside organisation (together with the contact details for both Harry K and Harry A (otherwise known as Harry the Handbag aka Robin – see Batman above)). Until such time as it does Dover Monday may not refer to itself as an AA meeting. Herne Bay Wednesday however has decided to remain listed with Primary Purpose and similarly therefore may no longer be considered - or refer to itself as - an AA meeting.

Links and downloads

Linking Treatment Centres with Alcoholics Anonymous, Kurtz L.F, Social Work in Health Care, Vol. 9(3), 85-94, 1984

The Alcoholic as an Agency Client, Sapir J, Social Casework, Vol.38 (7), 355?361, 1957 

  

A Sociologist Looks at AA, Bacon SD, Minnesota Welfare, Vol.10, (3), 35?44, 1957

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The 'Woodstock' Revival c/o Plymouth R2R cult

On one of our 'oh so' infrequent excursions into Wayneville (aka Plymouth Road to Recovery cult group website ) we came across this little 'promotional' item under their Diary Dates section:

As you may observe there is an impressive list of speakers (or is it a list of impressive speakers?) much touted for this event which is described – or at least according to their own online blurb - as “The “Original” Woodstock of AA”. In what respect the Stateline Retreat resembles the 'original' is difficult to discern. For example there is absolutely no mention of 'hippie chicks'

A hippie 'chick'

or 'heads' (otherwise known as 'dudes')

A 'dude'

nor does the size of this “intimate” gathering (900) compare particularly favourably with the estimated 500,000 devotees who attended its predecessor. Perhaps the term “intimate” holds the clue to this connection. Maybe the 'free lurve' much in evidence at the first festival is to be emulated during the intensive study that so uniquely characterises – or so the organisers would have us believe! - this particular colloquium. Indeed we are assured that here you will find the “closest friends” (nudge nudge wink wink!)

“some you know and the others you just don't know yet!”

(We can only assume that “know” here is used in the biblical sense and should not be confused with mere acquaintanceship!)

Between whatever “love ins” that might take place (see under “hippie”) the participants can take a break and explore the wonders of the AA recovery programme. Apparently this event is quite unique focussing as it does on “the twelve step recovery process and the principals of the twelve traditions”, something presumably lacking in all other AA gatherings! Moreover spectators will be regaled by “some of our fellowships best communicators” as they attempt to induct the audience into the mysteries of their craft! Well so far so bad..... not much of a festival is it! Where are the ….. Ooops ….. Hold on!..... There may be no music but there will be LASERS! Apparently the light show will be courtesy of the SPEAKERS who will shine their percipience upon the audience “with a laser like focus”! Well OK.... laser LIKE .. you can't have everything! Whad'ya want for 90 bucks!

Finally the introductory 'taster' makes reference to THE programme which apparently is “necessary to maintain this gift” (as in the gift of sobriety). But curious! What was that bit in the Big Book about contingency? (Alcoholics Anonymous, Chapter Six, Into Action, p. 85):

“What we have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition”.

But 'contingency' is not the same as 'necessity'. ie. in the former case our 'daily reprieve' may be dependent on such efforts but not necessarily so. This would explain for example the ability of some AA members to remain sober without any kind of belief or dependence on a spiritual 'entity' as such. Still we must have got it wrong! After all we don't possess those 'laser-like' insights do we!!

[Note: Although the Steps and Traditions are both mentioned as being the subject of scrutiny there's a notable absence of the latter throughout the schedule. We can only wonder why! Never mind... the Wizard of Oz will be there (Clancy I) to lecture on Step 12 .....  All will be well!]

But we digress....

So now we come to the event flier (downloadable from the site) and the always irksome question of …. money!!!

90 dollars plus accommodation is what this “intimate” gathering will cost you. It would seem however that there is no lack of punters; reservations are now closed... shame!

The organiser (or at least the guy picking up the dough) is a fellow called Bob Darrall.

Now a little bit of internet research (no more than a couple of minutes!) revealed further information about Bob D (as we might say in AA if we were at all interested in Tradition 12 – of which we know nothing of course!). Now Bob it would seem runs (or ran) a company called Darralect Entertainment LLC (a domestic limited liability company). 

A few more clicks gave us sundry details - name, age, address etc none of which are of great interest. Then we came across something called Stateline Retreat Inc (yet another domestic non profit corporation) registered under the name of Joseph F Kyle Esq but in which the positions of director, president, secretary and treasurer are ALL held by …... dear old Bob Darrall (the board meetings must be absolutely riveting!)

But now it suddenly struck us - the Woodstock connection was clear! The light had finally dawned! The Stateline retreat had absolutely nothing to do with AA! It was just ….......... show biz! Phew! What a relief! Well THAT'S OK THEN!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Links and downloads

Does AA Really Work? Glasser FB, and Ogborne, AC
British Journal of Addiction, Vol 77, 123-129, 1982

The Puzzle of AA , Edwards G
New Society, May 28, 1964

Sectarian Characteristics of Alcoholics Anonymous Jones RK
Sociology, Vol. 6, 181-195, 1970.

See also Links and downloads

Some more reflections …..

Extracts from our forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/aacultwatch under thread: “aacultwatch forum daily reflections”

“Speaking for Dr. Bob and myself I would like to say that there has never been the slightest intent, on his part or mine, of trying to found a new religious denomination. Dr. Bob held certain religious convictions, and so do I. This, of course, the personal privilege of every A.A. member. Nothing however, could be so unfortunate for A.A.’s future as an attempt to incorporate any of our personal theological views into A.A. teaching, practice or tradition.” - Bill W. (AA Comes of Age page 232)

“Beyond a Higher Power, as each of us may vision him, A.A. must never, as a society, enter the field of dogma or theology. We can never become a religion in that sense. Lest we kill our usefulness by being bogged down in theological contention.” - Bill W. (Letter 1954, As Bill sees It page 116)

“Doc was extremely democratic’ recalled Joe. ‘He’d go to a meeting, and he wouldn’t sit up on the stage. He’d always sit in the second row or some place like that.” – Joe P. (Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers page 288)

1931* the first foundation stone of Alcoholics Anonymous is laid by the Swiss psychiatrist and founder of analytical psychology, Dr. Carl Jung.

“Then followed a conversation between you that was to become the first link in the chain of events that led to the founding of Alcoholics anonymous.” - Bill W. (Bill W. Letter to Carl Jung, 1961, Pass it On page 382)

“This candid and humble statement of yours was no doubt the first foundation stone upon which our society was built.” - Bill W. (Bill W. Letter to Carl Jung, 1961, AA Grapevine January 1963. Language of the Heart page 277)

“Please be certain that your place in the affection, and in the history, of our fellowship is like no other. Gratefully yours, William G. W. Co-founder Alcoholics Anonymous ” (Bill W. Letter to Carl Jung, 1961, Language of the Heart page 280)

“His insight into what was needed for recovery from alcoholism, an insight that came to me through Rowland and Ebby at a crucial point in my own deterioration, meant everything for AA when it was still in embryo.” – Bill W. (AA Grapevine January 1968, Language of the Heart page 282)

“Without its friends in the medical profession, Alcoholics Anonymous might never have been born. It was from the medical profession that we of A.A. learned the physical and emotional nature of our malady. Today thousands of physicians throughout the world are working in closest co-operation with us.”– Bill W. (A.A. Comes of Age page 235)

Carl Jung’s conversation with Rowland H. is described on pages 26, 27 of the “Big Book.”

*1931 was an approximate date given by Bill W in his letter to Carl Jung. Recent historians place the date Rowland H. being a patient of Carl Jung to be 1926; evidence found in family papers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowland_Hazard_III

(our emphases)

Comment: AA has NO place for religious dogma (take note Dick B and other Oxford Group fundamentalists), NO place for 'grand standers' (ditto for sundry so-called 'personalities'! eg . Clancy I et al etc etc ) and ABSOLUTELY NO place for medical 'experts' (other than those suitably qualified – which would exclude plumbers!)

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)