Joys of Recovery Detroit and Troy (Michigan)

A recent email from the States. We quote:

“I found a great deal of hope in this website in that I am not alone. Thank you to who ever is running this site! Everything I have been through and witnessed makes so much sense now.

I was taken to a Joys meeting in 2012 by a women I met at a young persons meeting in 2010 but at that time I was not ready to be sober though hung onto the phone number.

This meeting takes place on Wednesday evening at 7.30pm in Troy [MI] titled Joys of Recovery. I knew something was strange right from the start, I had obviously been to AA previously and this meeting seemed different. To start, before the meeting we had dinner at a local restaurant, all the men sat at one end of the restaurant and the women on the other. Once done with dinner it was off to the meeting just around the corner, though we needed to be at the meeting early, an hour early? There was the usual coffee and treats… the meeting is set up in led discussion format, which for Michigan is unusual. We typically see table topic meetings. Yet again the men have their side on the right and women on the left. Though the men if they wanted could sit on the women's side, there are many more men then women so I'll give them the benefit and say seating could have been slim, though if you're a female heaven forbid you're sitting on the men's side… Five minutes before the meeting starts with a speaker the coffee and treats are taken away, I have since learned this is because alcoholics need to acquire discipline and sit though a whole meeting and listen to the message. In the opening announcements it was stated "some of our members are sensitive to swearing" - really? This is fucking AA! Never have I ever heard such B.S... some of our newly sober members just came off the street, I feel as though swearing should be the least of anyone's concerns. Can we pull the sticks out of our asses please, and we're alcoholic it often comes along with the territory. I so badly want to shout obscenities but I kept my mouth shut… The following message I heard spoke little about what it use to be like and more so on sponsor/sponsee relationship, service, how important it was to not speak to people of the opposite sex because we alcoholics don't know what our motives are, and a few other "suggestions" I never read in the Big Book. I was given a newcomers packet which consisted of a meeting guide, a few women's numbers because there wasn't many at this meeting, a Just for Today card and a couple other papers/pamphlets.

After getting out of treatment right away I knew I needed a sponsor so I wasn't too picky and asked the woman who gave [me] a ride on a couple occasions. We had a few things in common about what it use to be like…. I asked a woman A.... to work with me, she told me a little about herself though stated she was extremely happy today and never thought about drinking - the obsession as they say had been removed. That's what I wanted, and she seemed to be the ring leader of the women there, sat in the front chair on the women's side and to me at the time seemed like a VIP of AA at least with the Joys folks. At the time it didn't make sense but now knowing all the history of Joys AA I can make a few connections, I was told her sponsor lived in England / AKA the motherland of Joys/ Visions meetings. Once I stated working one on one I had all of the typical daily suggestions of the Joys Cult, read and live out the JFT card, gratitude list, calling newcomers, I was set up with 2 three month long service positions, one in Troy and one at their sister location Detroit (also talked about on this site) I was not to have any romantic relations, read 2 pages of the big book, daily meetings though there were meetings I was advised not to attend / didn't count as meetings, for example women's meetings because we should not be prejudice on who can hear a message ( though they choose to segregate men and women @ their fellowship and own meetings ) Is segregation a form of prejudice? Just a thought... Then there was a meeting I attended where Joys was not spoken fondly of when I told them I went there, A...... told me "they were sick" and I probably should choose another meeting that night. That meeting was my home group and I was a young person and it was a young person meeting which was very refreshing but, I was told that my home group was now Joys because my sponsor was from Joys and her sponsor started Joys…. ( Kristen and John C ) the husband and wife who play mummy and daddy in the cascade style sponsoring. I was to never miss a Joys meeting attend early and attend fellowship. At the time I was on an anti depressant, meanwhile 2 months earlier I was released from a mental hospital and was advised NOT to come off my medication. I told A.... what I was taking its a non-narcotic explained what the medication did etc, and I was told "I need to look that up"… For real? I found that odd, you're not my doctor lady, you're my sponsor, and you're supposed to have no medical view or opinion so why do you need to "look that up"…. Someone from another group asked once they found out who my sponsor was if I had to sign my name in blood and deliver my first born child to be a home group member with Joys. Obviously this meeting had a reputation I was unaware of. As did my sponsor...

Upon going to the meeting in Detroit a man stood outside and said his sponsor was telling him to stop smoking since he had acquired a year of sobriety, where does the book say that we can't smoke after a year? During the meeting I began to notice a routine of sharing and if someone spoke out of line from the Joys program someone was quick to reprimand and or speak up next in turn. One woman stated something that stuck out to me " I was told not to share at a meeting till I had completed the 12 steps for until then I didn't have a message to share"… hmm I find that strange, sometimes I need the raw, real message from someone struggling or just walking through the doors to remind me what it was like out there. But apparently those messages are for your sponsor and not for the meeting. I also on an occasion had a conversation with my sponsor about getting a coin because I had an anniversary coming up, but I was sadly told Joys doesn't do birthdays and it's suggested I don't get coins because that's what A.....'s sponsor had told her, and one day A........ wanted to pick up her one year birthday coin at a meeting and apparently relapsed several days later, its un-humble of our sobriety to get a coin is what that conversation amounted to, and we stay sober for today. Though for me getting a coin is for the newcomer today not for me, it's to show the newcomer that this works, so keep coming back and one day you will have a coin too! I believe this relapse had nothing to do with picking up a coin…. but the brainwashing aspect attached to it… I kept getting my coins like I saw so many others with great long term sobriety at other meetings. I also began to notice before going to the restroom people would wait till someone was done sharing, and then stand on the sides till a share was over to return to their seat. This reminds me of church though I'm sure it just goes back to discipline. This group also has a huge prudent reserve, and acquires a large amount of money, group business meeting seemed to have business set up outside the meeting before the group conscious but matters were still discussed for the formality. Like a hierarchy is taking care of business for the group… I was telling someone after the meeting about an affirmations book I had purchased at a rehab, it was Hazelden, I was told that was not AA approved literature and suggested to pick up a 24 hour a day book instead. When I went to smoke cigarettes outside none of the men would even acknowledge my presence, I didn't want "attention" it just seemed strange to carry on a conversation and not even say hello, or 'good morning' like a welcoming AA member would… There were small other incidences regarding this meeting as far as living out the Just for Today and dressing becomingly I was told from a friend a Joys woman saw their attire at a meeting and asked "why are we dressed for the bar". Joys homegroup members pride themselves on looking "presentable".

I only had a few meetings with this sponsor until enough was enough after doing different meetings and talking to other AAs this was not AA, and I'll never forget my final straw with Joys and their principles. I was 90 days plus clean and this woman never took me through a single step, I was reading Dr addict, alcoholic in the third edition BB which in the 4th edition is Acceptance was the answer every time we met…. To sum it up I was not being taken though the steps because according to Joys I was using alcohol in solid form, my non narcotic anti depressant. I read the medical view in AA in the appendix several times and in the Living Sober book, I saw nothing that I was doing wrong or against AA though it was against Joys, I was told that "this is the recipe for my cake and if you don't follow my directions (recipe) exactly I can't guarantee you my cake. Well I want my own fucking cake. I still want a cake, because I'm still an alcoholic but I want some chocolate freedom which I have earned now that I am not a slave to alcohol any longer. Apparently A....'s cake didn't entail me taking anti depressants, thank god I'm not bipolar or schizo affected because lord knows the 12 steps aren't gonna keep me from seeing dragons, but according to Joys I just don't "trust" enough.

According to Joys I have a watered down version of AA, I find this very sad, they're killing people with their methods. and I had a hard time breaking away from them like as though my sobriety wasn't good enough…. I now see a few newcomers at other meetings looking and acting like I did over a year ago. I was prideful to be a Joys member, knowing that I thought I worked the best of the best program, with prestige, and ettiquette. Though as being an alcoholic I find peace today knowing I am no better than or worse than, I am just another alcoholic. I have returned to their meeting on a few occasions this summer both the Wednesday meeting in Troy and Saturday meeting in Detroit and things have changed… there is an obvious number of people breaking away from this meeting mainly the women! There are roughly from what I can tell 3-5 female homegroup members meaning they lead back to Kristen in sponsorship lineage. As for her husband John I'm not sure who his sponsees are though I hear of a California man named Manny spoken of often who sponsors a few men there cascade style. Several of the women I once saw there no longer attend, thankfully they found a way out and are still sober; though a couple of them I'm not sure. I hope anyone who comes to this meeting goes to other meetings as well and can recognize this is NOT AA. That they may use the 12 steps but this is a dictatorship with their own principles and their own agenda. MANY people in our area are aware of them and refer newcomers else where they are not looked upon fondly and we try to keep our distance as long as they keep their meetings in their own bubble. Though it has been a challenge to share the message with those especially the young members who don't know any better culted by their program to see for THEMSELVES otherwise. This website is an excellent tool, I hope to see more blogs and advice from people recovering from a Joys experience in the Detroit area so we can share our experience on how to find a way out.”

(minor edits)

Comment: None needed. But all too familiar!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS Our usual thanks to our correspondent