A.A.'s Co-founder Asks Fellowship to Take-Over, August, 1955, Bill W

See also Links and downloads

PS For AA Minority Report 2013 click here

Alcohol research

Interpersonal Factors in the Genesis and Treatment of Alcohol Addiction, Maxwell MA, SOCIAL FORCES, Vol. 29 (4), 443-448, 1951 

“Alcohol addiction, said by Bowman and Jellinek to be the central problem of alcohol, has been receiving the increased attention of scientific workers during recent years – and deserves the research interests of more sociologists.

The etiology of alcohol addiction remains an unsolved problem. Nevertheless, a review of the literature reveals a growing consensus that "the problem drinker suffers from a chronic and deeply ingrained disorder of personality." In the writings of many psychiatrists, e.g., Nolan D.C. Lewis, Edward A. Strecker, Robert V. Seliger, Harry M. Tiebout, George N. Thompson, R.S. Banay, Paul Schilder, Edward B. Allen, and Oskar Eiethelm, there are sketched only slightly varying versions of this increasingly held assumption that neurotic factors are prominently involved in the development of alcohol addiction.”

See also Links and downloads 

PS For AA Minority Report 2013 click here

Conference questions (2014) – almost! (contd)

“38. Would Conference discuss if AA UK should use or not use the term “self help group” when referring to AA groups?

Background

On the webpage section "Newcomer to AA ‐ Who We Are" it says:

"Through meetings and talking with other alcoholics we are somehow able to stay sober."

This could give the impression AA is a self help group and that talking to others "somehow" keeps us sober. The Big Book has a chapter called "How it Works". It does not mention going to meetings and then "somehow" staying sober. Instead it talks about taking certain steps and through them building a relationship with God that works.

As much as it is understandable that we cannot explain the whole chapter in one sentence at the web, this description on how it works given now on the page, may cause the impression steps have nothing to do with recovery and that we don't know what got us sober in the first place.

In addition the flyer "To Professionals" actually states we were self help groups. As far as I know that is the only piece in AA literature that does so, especially as this information is wrong. Step 2 states exactly that "we came to believe that only a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity" and hereby refers to God, because we cannot help ourselves

Terms of Reference No. 7 Covered by existing literature, for example our Preamble which states AA is a “Fellowship”.”

Comment: Oh dear! Another bloody recovery 'expert'! This is one should really try reading the book sometime maybe starting with the above quoted chapter – Working With Others - and the very beginning of the section no less:

“Practical experience shows that nothing will so much insure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. It works when other activities fail. This is our twelfth suggestion: Carry this message to other alcoholics! You can help when no one else can. You can secure their confidence when others fail. Remember they are very ill.”

(our emphasis)

Presumably “carry[ing] the message” might involve at some stage actually talking with the person concerned. Or perhaps the message is somehow transmitted via the esoteric art of telepathy? As for whether meetings are mentioned in the literature – they are....and guess where! …. The Big Book no less! (A Vision For You, p. 161)

“Now, this house will hardly accommodate its weekly visitors, for they number sixty or eighty as a rule. Alcoholics are being attracted from far and near. From surrounding towns, families drive long distances to be present. A community thirty miles away has fifteen fellows of Alcoholics Anonymous. Being a large place, we think that some day its Fellowship will number many hundreds.”

“Then, in this eastern city, there are informal meetings such as we have described to you, where you may now see scores of members. There are the same fast friendships, there is the same helpfulness to one another as you find among our western friends.” (p. 162)

Note: From the above it can be seen that 'self-help' refers to one 'self' helping another. Not fixing or curing..... but helping! Jeez! If you're going to cite the literature maybe read it first!

See here for a full list of other questions that didn't quite get through the 'filter'

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS How do you do a step Five by the way without talking to someone else? Telepathy again perhaps!! Talking with other alcoholics is referred to all the way through the book!

Is Alcoholics Anonymous turning into a neo-Oxford group cult?

Extracts from the aacultwatch forum (old) 

“Hi …....,

Thanks for your post. I think it is very relevant to this forum because I think all 12 step fellowships might be being targeted by the destructive cult(s). It may be that we are dealing with one international cult which at group level goes under a multitude of names and is spread across numbers of 12 step fellowships. I detect a movement operating under various descriptions and corporations targeting 12 step fellowship members with intent to amalgamate them into one evangelical neo-Oxford Group 12 step “recovery community”- a cure all for any addiction or compulsive behaviour. The movement has been powerful enough to split the national group conscience in USA/Canada, leading to AA losing official use of its Circle and Triangle trade mark to outside enterprises. A decision was taken in 1993 for AA World Services Inc. and AA Grapevine Inc. to stop using and protecting the symbol against the weight of around 170 unauthorised users. These included novelty manufacturers, publishers, and treatment centers.

(Box4-5-9 August-September 1993 ‘Letting Go' of the Circle and Triangle As A Legal Mark pp. 5-6: This was also reported in AA Grapevine  December 1993, Vol. 50 No. 7: “Around AA  Whatever Happened to the Circle and Triangle?” 

Unfortunately there was a large enough lobby within the fellowship supporting novelty manufacturers' illegal misuse of the symbol on medallions; this combined with enough timid, complacent or apathetic conference delegates who avoided their responsibilities of leadership in concept IX, to stand firm on traditions and their duty to act as guardians of the fellowship; to actively provide the deterrent to outside entities described in the General Warranties of Conference (specifically Concept XII, Warranty Five). An alternative to letting go of the symbol according to Warranty Five would have been for conference delegates to instruct the boards of AA World Services Inc. and AA Grapevine Inc. to inform the general public of the symbol's illegal misuse, naming the publishers, treatment centers and novelty manufacturers who were using it illegally. And also,to ask Public Information committees  throughout the AA world service structure, local and national, to deploy the protective action in warranty five by informing the general public also.

I think the symbol is still copyright and used in some forms by general service boards in UK and some other countries. So let’s hope the general service boards in these countries can hold onto it before AA loses its identity completely to outside enterprises. The primary aim for cults is to gain power for their leaders, to make them money, and to recruit new members. The profits from cult study guides, sponsor guides, step guides, meeting guides, distorted AA history guides, workbooks, other pre-conference and non conference approved literature, sobriety chips, medallions and other novelty items all head up somewhere to someone's big fat wallet.

You might find it useful to read ….....’s post under the “It has reached us too” thread. Also, the  “TLM in Alanon UK?” thread by …....

I think it has helped me to learn how cults operate, which is why I put up the "Useful Resources" threads in section 3 of this forum. I think large international cults are difficult to recognise because they can have numbers of front companies and groups under different names, continue to evolve, change names, recruitment targets and sometimes locations. They can be recognised more by their behaviour, group structures and type of language they use. The cult group in my AA intergroup was called “There is a Solution,” affiliated to the Primary Purpose Group, Dallas Texas and Dick B literature. Now that it has closed down, after much local opposition, I gather the person who started the group (and main driving force behind it) has relocated to another area. Thanks again for your post, I found the information useful to know."

 “I think the evidence is there in the field of sociology that these cults are targeting 12 step fellowships in general. The religious orientation of the cults and the influence they have had in changing the nature of groups are now deterring social workers from referring clients to 12 step fellowships unless they explicitly identify themselves as Christian.”

This is an extract from a paper titled “Addiction, spirituality and 12-step programmes” by Dr. W. Dosset, senior lecturer in religious studies at Chester University.

 “Research has shown that there is a resistance to referring individuals to TSPs [Twelve Step Programmes] because of the apparent religious nature of the programmes (as well as for other reasons) and social workers may consider them inappropriate for clients other than those explicitly identifying as Christian and would not wish to risk imposing religious beliefs and practices upon them. (Caldwell, 1999, Kurtz and Chambon, 1987, Laudet,2003) ( Addiction, spirituality and 12-step programmes, Dossett W, International Social Work, 56(3) 369–383)

These are extracts from a book titled “Take Back Your Life, Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships” by Professor J. Lalich, Professor of Sociology at California State University; a textbook used by professionals working in cult rehabilitation. 

“There are cults, for example, that focus their recruitment activities in drug-rehabilitation programs, Alcoholics Anonymous, and other twelve-step programs, as that milieu tends to be a ripe hunting ground for potential members.” ( Take Back Your Life: Recovering From Cults And Abusive Relationships, p 91) 

“In cases where alcohol or substance abuse was or is a problem, attending meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous may help. However, we caution you to proceed into the 12-step world with your eyes open and your antennae up. Despite its successes, this is an area rife with abuses and incompetencies. Hustlers use 12-step programs as a hunting ground for income and glory. Some counselors and group leaders are not credentialed. Some programs are fronts for cults. Even a well-meaning program may inadvertently promote long-term victimization. Although these groups are set up to reduce codependency, many participants become completely dependent on their 12-step meetings and friends.” ( Take Back Your Life: Recovering From Cults And Abusive Relationships" p194)

amazonbooks.comhttp://www.amazon.com/Take-Back-Your-Life-Relationships/dp/0972002154  amazonbooks.co.uk http://www.amazon.co.uk/Take-Back-Your-Life-Relationships/dp/0972002154/####?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1356182862&sr=1-3 

I think the faith based neo Oxford Group cult phenomena is something all 12 step fellowships are going to have to adjust to and protect against if 12 step fellowships are to survive in the long term. If there’s no opposition to the cults then they’ll just take over as more and more people leave the fellowships and fewer people are referred to them by professionals.”

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS To use “comment” system simply click on the relevant tab below this article and sign in. All comments go through a moderation stage

PPS For new aacultwatch forum see here. Have your say!

Snappy quotes

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

Hunter S. Thompson

Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol or morphine or idealism.

Carl Jung

Alcohol is necessary for a man so that he can have a good opinion of himself, undisturbed be the facts.

Finley Peter Dunne

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Questions and Answers on Sponsorship (contd)

The AA (General Service conference approved) booklet: Questions and Answers on Sponsorship)

Extract:

“Can a sponsor be too casual?

Some sponsors prefer to adopt a casual attitude toward newcomers with whom they work. For example, they are perfectly willing to spend time with the new member who asks for it, but rarely take the time or trouble to call between meetings or help the newcomer get to meetings.

Some newcomers actually flourish best left pretty much on their own. But there may be some danger in this approach: A timid or reserved newcomer may conclude that the group and the individual sponsor are not interested in helping.

Many present members report that they did not make a firm decision to adopt the A.A. Program until months or years after their first contact with A.A., simply because they were allowed to drift away from the group. A growing number of groups try to avoid this by establishing a program for following up with newcomers during a period of weeks or months after an initial approach is made to the group (see pages 23-24).”

Comment: Newcomers' capacity to be able to think for themselves and make their own decisions, and then act in their own interests seems to be grossly underestimated here. Simply because someone has been pouring large quantities of alcohol down their throats for a prolonged period of time doesn't imply that they are idiots when they sober up. In our experience someone who wants to sort their life out and stay sober usually does – sometimes even despite AA! Contrariwise someone who doesn't want to won't even with the best efforts of everyone around them. Remember that bit about “probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism …..” (AA, p. 60, Chapter 5, How It Works). The best thing to do with someone who has set their course upon recovery is - don't get in their way! And the last thing you want to do with someone who's not interested is pester them! (AA, Chapter 7, Working With Others – interestingly this chapter was almost completely ignored by Joe and Charlie (Primary Purpose) in their so-called 'Big Book study' – we wonder why! We quote (from an approved transcript of their talks):

“We don’t want to go through this next chapter (Working with Others) we don’t have the time, but I do want to look at two or three things in it very briefly.”

Cult members generally prefer not to follow the guidelines indicated in this section. It really doesn't suit the control freaks!

But remember: a sponsor is NOT ESSENTIAL to recovery. And NO sponsorship is better by far than BAD sponsorship!

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

(to be continued)

What Is The Third Legacy?, July, 1955, Bill W

See also Links and downloads

PS For AA Minority Report 2013 click here

Conference questions (2014) – almost! (contd)

“36. Given the service commitment required to be a Conference delegate, would Conference consider introducing a specific and separate guideline for Conference delegates, which can better help in the selection and preparation of delegates and their alternates?

Background

In the 2010 Conference report, the response to the inventory question (question 2) from Committee 5 ‐ on improving the method of Conference reporting back to the membership – did not address the issue of improving the existing communication between Conference and the membership as a whole.

Ideally all delegates would readily understand the implications of each question in terms of the Concepts, Traditions and the Conference Charter. As our trusted servants it is vital that all Conference delegates are fully armed with the facts in order to truly serve the Fellowship.

Our literature has plenty to say but it would be useful to have that gathered in one pamphlet or guideline to ensure that delegates are sufficiently informed about what the position entails.

It could also provide guidance about which literature should be read by an aspiring delegate or alternate. For example:

 ∙ GB Service Manual

 ∙ World Service Manual

 ∙ Conference Charter and warrantees

 ∙ 12 Traditions

 ∙ 12 Concepts

 ∙ AA Comes of Age

 ∙ Recent previous Conference reports

Terms of Reference No. 7 Covered in recently approved Structure Handbook for Great Britain, page 93”

Comment: And they wonder why the majority of the fellowship is so disengaged from participation in the service structure above group level! But it always serves the interests of hierarchies to make their operations as obscure and as technical as possible ensuring thereby their machinations remain incomprehensible to the rest of us. In this fashion they remain the 'masters' of their mysterious craft whilst excluding the remainder from any real participation. AA has been and is a profoundly undemocratic organisation with a leadership (?) that is unelected, and which for the most part remains effectively unaccountable (by design). With an ever increasing proliferation of guidelines (ignored largely by those who have no interest in AA principles eg. cult members and groups) and burdened by an expanding and mostly unnecessary 'bureaucracy' (eg. region) - even as the membership is static if not actually decreasing - AA shows every sign of disappearing into a mire of its own making. The production of yet more guidelines does not, we would say, suggest a solution! Maybe fewer!

See here for a full list of other questions that didn't quite get through the 'filter'

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Back to Basics=Wally P= terminal boredom!

Every now and then we get an email from a Back to Basic's apologist giving us yet another history lesson (which version?) about AA, and the antecedents of the aforementioned Wally's unique take on the recovery programme. Again we are informed how badly AA is faring and how mislead we all are. Once again the same old entirely inaccurate quotes about AA recovery rates are rolled out (this happens with such mind-numbing regularity that we don't even bother to cite the corrective passage in the Big Book in response to these idiots anymore). According to this latest missive it's all Bill Wilson's fault! Apparently (or so our recovery 'expert' informs us) the rot set in with the publication of the “12 Steps and 12 Traditions” (authored by the infamous Bill Wilson, destroyer of AA). Thereafter we all became hell-bent (or so we're told) on stopping newcomers from doing the steps (or at least delaying them) instead of belting them through in double-fast time. The fact that they'll probably be as clueless at the end of the process as they were at the beginning is neither here nor there. So our SUGGESTION to all you recovery 'gurus' out there (and you do seem to be multiplying) is invest some of your not-so-hard-earned money from the sales of your dubious literature and buy some specs! That way you might overcome your congenital eye defects, which can be the only possible explanation for your inability to grasp some really REALLY 'basic' facts. Or perhaps you fall into that category of being “constitutionally incapable”. Or then again maybe you're just plain thick! Who can say!

For an analysis of the Back to Basics/Primary Purpose scam see: An Enquiry into Primary Purpose and Back to Basics AA Groups 

For an exhaustive, properly researched and ACCURATE presentation on AA recovery rates see: Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) Recovery Outcome Rates - Contemporary Myth and Misinterpretation 

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS Coming soon! (drum roll followed by wild applause). Our very own slightly irreverent and even occasionally critical commentary of the Big Book (in serialised form)! Everything will be given the 'once-over' (unlike, for example, Joe and Charlie who just leave out anything they don't agree with). We will quite naturally be charging you vast sums of money for the privilege of being on the receiving end of our penetrative insights – NOT! We will also be producing a wide selection of very expensive supporting literature (work sheets, flashy brochures, commentaries on our commentaries, CDs, DVDs, mpegs, jpegs, clothing pegs etc) together with all manner of novelty toys, badges, jewellery, deodorants, baseball caps and anything else we can think of to part you from your cash – NOT! Members of the team will also be available personally to take anyone with enough 'readies' through the recovery programme – NOT! Alternatively speakers can be provided for events GRATIS (subject to the usual provisions: first class food and accommodation, first class travel, first class groupies etc). Send email for details on dressing room requirements!! These alone will be spectacularly exorbitant! - NOT!

Road to Recovery Plymouth – a finger in every pie!

Extracts from the aacultwatch forum (old)

“Hi, everyone

I've been debating for around three years, whether or not I should post this message here. The reason I held off from doing so, is that it doesn't directly affect AA: however, it does have a big effect on addicts in other areas of life, but I can't find an equivalent platform to this anywhere else. So, at long last, I've decided to heck with it - if I post here and its not relevant, then a moderator can remove it from the board. However, maybe it will do some good...

Anyone who reads the AACultwatch blog knows that there is a strong cult contingent in Plymouth, in the shape of Wayne P's "Road to Recovery" group - there's a LOT of posts regarding their attitudes and adventures, going back several years and showing no sign of abating any time soon. However, the same group is also running an SAA group, very much in the same mould. I had direct experience of the group myself for almost two years, before I realised it was unhealthy and moved on.

The group, which runs under the name "There Is A Solution", was founded by a sponsee of Wayne P's (in the interests of anonymity, I won't name who), and they run it in exactly the same way that R2R is run. Almost everyone is sponsored within the group - and if not, you are encouraged to do so - which means that a pyramid is set up, with the founder at the top. Since the Golden Rule is, Do What Your Sponsor Tells You, it essentially means that the founder controls the actions of everyone in the group. In addition, the group completely ignores the Green Book of SAA, and instead uses only the Big Book of AA, changing the terms of alcohol addiction to sex addiction wherever they are found in the text. They actively dismiss the Green Book as unhelpful, with several areas that are, in their words, more likely to cause a relapse then aid recovery.

Like I said, I was in the group for two years. The general mode of operating in that time was to get members to come to both weekly meetings, attend no meetings outside the group (which wasn't too difficult to arrange, as SAA meetings are a bit thin on the ground), and we were strongly encouraged to also attend the open meeting of the R2R group on a Friday evening - in fact, this open evening was given higher importance than the Thursday meeting of the group itself! The only time in two years that we were encouraged to attend any meetings outside our own was if we went en masse to another group (I attended a couple in Bristol when one of our group moved up there, and a conference in London), to "spread the word" of how recovery "should" be done.

In not sure what the solution to groups like this is: if anything, to my mind they're potentially more damaging to addicts seeking recovery than the AA groups they've spawned from. AA is now big enough that in a city like Plymouth, there are many different groups being run. At the time I was in the SAA group, however, it was the only group of its kind in the area. I had no way to compare it to anything else, and the only other twelve-step experience I had was of the R2R parent group. It took me two years before I was able to glean that things weren't healthy there, and I consider myself a bright and intelligent individual, who has read up on cult activity and methods for years.

I don't know that I can expect anything to change: this post is certainly not an attempt to rally a call to arms, or get the group disbanded. But I do think its important that other would-be members are forewarned about its ties and attitudes, and in hindsight, I'm sorry I waited three years to speak out.”

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS To use “comment” system simply click on the relevant tab below this article and sign in. All comments go through a moderation stage

PPS For new aacultwatch forum see here. Have your say!

Questions and Answers on Sponsorship (contd)

The AA (General Service conference approved) booklet: Questions and Answers on Sponsorship)

Extract:

“Can a sponsor be overprotective?

In their enthusiasm to help a newcomer achieve sobriety, some sponsors may tend to be overprotective. They worry unduly about the persons they sponsor and tend to smother them with attention. In doing so, they may run the risk of having a newcomer depend on an individual member, rather than on the A.A. program. The most effective sponsors recognize that alcoholics who join A.A. must eventually stand on their own feet and make their own decisions — and that there is a difference between helping people to their feet and insisting on holding them up thereafter.

Another danger of overprotectiveness is that it may annoy the newcomer to the point of resenting the attempts to help — and expressing that resentment by turning away from A.A.”

(our emphasis)

Comment: Or in the case of cult sponsors setting themselves up as the sponsee's Higher Power and bullying rather than smothering them into submission. The reality is that newcomers to AA have to start making their own decisions from the off! No-one else is entitled to take that responsibility. 

Remember - Step 3 states: 

“Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him."

(our emphasis)

It does NOT say:

Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of our sponsor as we understood Him.

Moreover a sponsor is NOT ESSENTIAL to recovery. And NO sponsorship is better by far than BAD sponsorship!

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

(to be continued)

Stuff! (contd)

In our never-ending quest for privacy and anonymity (unless you're a cult bully of course!) we present:

“SpiderOak makes it possible for you to privately store, sync, share & access your data from everywhere”

“‘Zero-Knowledge’ Privacy

'Zero-Knowledge' privacy means the server never knows the plaintext contents of the data it is storing. Never. Therefore, the data is never at risk of being compromised or abused by either internal threats or external hacker”

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

See also under Free Stuff in Links and Downloads

Alcohol research

Cooperation and Rivalry Between Professionals and Memberrs of AA, Kurtz, LF, Health and Soccial Work, Vol. 10(2),104-112, Spring 1985

“Because Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) is an important resource for recovering alcoholics, most treatment centers want to work cooperatively with it. To identify factors that enhance this cooperation, the author surveyed AA members and professionals in the same communities and obtained a profile of their interactions, ideological similarities and linking activities.”

See also Links and downloads 

PS For AA Minority Report 2013 click here

An alternative to AA's “20 Questions”: You know you're a drunkard when … (contd)

When booze does its taxes it lists you as a dependent

Your idea of codependency is splitting the bar tab

You open a friend’s refrigerator and are bewildered to find food where the beer should be

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

Editorial: We Come Of Age, September. 1950, Bill W

See also Links and downloads

PS For AA Minority Report 2013 click here

Conference questions (2014) – almost! (contd)

“35. Would Conference consider what help may be given to those considering the formation of a non –Geographical Intergroup or Region open to all and any AA group within the UK?

Background

∙ A non‐geographical Intergroup or Region would function like existing Intergroups yet its membership would not be contingent on location.

∙ A non‐geographical Intergroup or Region would increase unity in the UK Fellowship by allowing groups which are currently being excluded from their geographical Intergroup, to participate fully in the Three Legacies of the Fellowship they serve.

∙ All AA groups should be able to contribute to our National group Conscience. Tradition 2, Concept 12 Warranties 4 & 6

∙ More and more Intergroups are trying to throw out AA groups that they disagree with.

∙ The GSB/GSO are refusing to recognize new Intergroups unless the Intergroups who banish groups agree with it.

∙ It is clearly wrong for Intergroups to have the final say in AA. Concept 1, Concept 4

∙ AA Guideline on Personal Conduct refers to “Discrimination”

∙ Continental Europe example

Terms of Reference No. 6 Local issue that depends on relevant circumstances”

Comment: This simply represents yet another desperate attempt by the cult groups to gain a foothold within AA! Notwithstanding the various flourishes of Concept This, Warranty That and Legacy The Other intergroups, like the groups they serve, can exercise their 'right' to autonomy albeit with due consideration being given to the impact on other groups and AA as a whole (and see Tradition Four). But the cult groups are very, VERY bad news for AA generally so any intergroup that either refuses access to them or takes steps to 'hoik' them out is doing us all a great favour. Do we really want the first contact a newcomer has with AA to be via a cult telephone responder? Do we want really want them to be 12 stepped by some fanatic robotically miming 'never had a bad day', 'always do what your sponsor says' …. blah di blah di blah? Much better they are welcomed into the fellowship by a man or woman who can actually communicate from their own experience (and not their sponsor's!) - and can string a sentence together that does not involve 'clone speak'. It always strikes us as highly ironic (if not entirely hypocritical) that the cult groups are always more than eager to cite the traditions and concepts when it suits their purpose but when challenged on their own breaches of these guidelines always claim the defence that there are no rules in AA! Quite right. There aren't! But then that cuts both ways doesn't it! Of course the cult groups could always form their own fellowship. How about Nutters Anonymous? Perhaps not entirely attractive but on the other hand completely accurate!

See here for a full list of other questions that didn't quite get through the 'filter'

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

The 'Visions' – all 'puff' and no substance!

Extracts from the aacultwatch forum (old) 

“When I first came in I had a "vision" sponsor and was encouraged to make a "cult" meeting one of my two home groups (a vision suggestion). I loved it with all the positive sharing and I even got a kick out of the way people (including myself) used to criticize regular AA as "those boring other meetings"!!...It was only after a couple of events (triggers) that I started to have concerns over this particular meeting and my sponsor...firstly my sponsor came up to the meeting one night from quite a distance away to check whether I was getting to the meeting an hour before it started...a suggestion...needless to say I wasn't and got told off for it....secondly his sponsor called me one day to chat and finished with "don't ever doubt your sponsor"...a suggestion...strange I thought...thirdly at a group conscience the steering committee dictated the format of the meeting not the group..the group didn't have a say...after this I parted with my sponsor and found the fellowship of AA waiting for me...totally different...full of love..genuine laughter and responsibility...I had to start again and this time the miracle happened...I rejoined society and now attempt to live in the real world and not some pretend its all OK "spiritual" holiday camp where I sort my problems out by calling a newcomer...recovery is about honesty and humility...you can't be humble if you're not being honest and vice versa....in short it helped me initially because I wanted to hear that its ALL good but it wasn't real...so no I think from my experience it does more damage.” 

“The two main areas of focus for these cults are a) newcomers..this is an obvious point of attack as from my experience I didn't know any better..I didn't know how AA worked...I didn't know there were these cults inside AA...I enjoyed their meetings because they were all "happy clappy" and no one shared their silly little problems (I didn't know they weren't allowed)...the world was all wonderful in recovery..never a bad day etc etc.. and b) the longer term member who enjoys a little self promotion....they are very very good a boosting the ego..I used to go to a visions meeting where people would attempt to out do each other over how wonderful their lives were...I started to feel something was wrong and one day I went to this meeting and shared up how I was actually feeling (my wife had asked for a divorce..I was 6 months sober)...at the end of my share..guess what...silence..no thank you ...nothing...I had stepped over the mark..some didn't like what I 'd shared some didn't know what to do...I left..never to return..since joining AA proper I have had the love and companionship of the fellowship support me through all sorts of heartaches but they've also been there to hear my gratitude..and plus..I can be there for others as well...it is like getting sober again but this time for real...the freedom I enjoy now is freedom from active alcoholism but also freedom to be me without having to answer to any self appointed guardian..one person responsible for my sobriety..me..no one else...I look at these at groups and shudder.”

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS To use “comment” system simply click on the relevant tab below this article and sign in. All comments go through a moderation stage

PPS For new aacultwatch forum see here. Have your say!

Questions and Answers on Sponsorship (contd)

The AA (General Service conference approved) booklet: Questions and Answers on Sponsorship)

Extract:

“Can a sponsor be too firm?

Some sponsors believe in being fairly blunt with a newcomer. They describe the A.A. Program as they understand it. They explain what A.A. has meant to them. They point out that there is no known cure for alcoholism, but that it can be arrested.

Having done these things, they leave the next move up to the newcomer. If the still-drinking alcoholic does not reach a decision immediately to join A.A., this sponsor believes in letting the situation alone.

This approach is not totally unsympathetic. Many alcoholics respect it and recognize it as an attempt to be completely factual about A.A., to avoid emotion.

The A.A. program is based on certain tested principles, which a newcomer may disregard only at risk. Firm sponsorship emphasizes this and usually works well in convincing the newcomer. Most A.A.s, however, recognize that firmness overdone can upset a newcomer. It should be tempered with sympathy and understanding.”

Comment: Yeah! They can be too firm. You need to 'tenderise' them a bit otherwise they're difficult to swallow! But what's too firm about this approach? You're just telling the guy the facts as you understand them (or to use AA parlance – you're merely sharing your experience, strength and hope with them). We're all grown-ups aren't we? We can all make up our own minds about how we want to proceed. We're not flogging deodorant. There's no need to dress it up or make fake claims about AA. Just tell them what you know. The rest is up to them and their Higher Power. On the other hand some people interpret 'firm' as just plain bullying eg. the cult. We've even heard recently a cult member inform a newcomer that unless they get a sponsor they'll drink again! Yeah. Right. We all know that's part of the AA recovery programme – NOT!

But remember: a sponsor is NOT ESSENTIAL to recovery. And NO sponsorship is better by far than BAD sponsorship!

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

(to be continued)

The Lord's Prayer …. revisited!

“A Letter From Bill W. Regarding The Lord's Prayer In A.A.
From the A.A. Archives in New York April 14, 1959

Dear Russ, Am right sorry for my delay in answering. Lois and I were a long time out of the country and this was followed by an attack of the marathon type of flu that has been around here in New York. We are okay now, however, but I did want to explain my delay.

Now about the business of adding the Lord's Prayer to each A.A. meeting.

This practice probably came from the Oxford Groups who were influential in the early days of A.A. You have probably noted in AA. Comes of Age what the connection of these people in A.A. really was. I think saying the Lord's Prayer was a custom of theirs following the close of each meeting. Therefore it quite easily got shifted into a general custom among us.

Of course there will always be those who seem to be offended by the introduction of any prayer whatever into an ordinary A.A. gathering. Also, it is sometimes complained that the Lord's Prayer is a Christian document. Nevertheless this Prayer is of such widespread use and recognition that the arguments of its Christian origin seems to be a little farfetched. It is also true that most A.A.s believe in some kind of God and that communication and strength is obtainable through His grace. Since this is the general consensus it seems only right that at least the Serenity Prayer and the Lord's Prayer be used in connection with our meetings. It does not seem necessary to defer to the feelings of our agnostic and atheist newcomers to the extent of completely hiding our light under a bushel.

However, around here, the leader of the meeting usually asks those to join him in the Lord's Prayer who feel that they would care to do so. The worst that happens to the objectors is that they have to listen to it This is doubtless a salutary exercise in tolerance at their stage of progress.

So that's the sum of the Lord's Prayer business as I recall it. Your letter made me wonder in just what connection you raise the question.

Meanwhile, please know just how much Lois and I treasure the friendship of you both. May Providence let our paths presently cross one of these days.

Devotedly yours,

Bill Wilson”

Comment: Bill Wilson wrote some very insightful and useful observations in his time but this wasn't one of them! The practice of reciting the Lord's Prayer may very well derive from the Oxford Groups from which as Bill observes AA detached itself early on in its development (too many 'absolute' this and 'absolute' that for AA tastes). And again it would be quite natural for Christian AA members to want to continue with the practice or at least right up to the point where AA pronounced that it was “not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organisation or institution” etc (or as specified in Traditions 3 and 10):

3.—Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation”.

“Tradition 10.—No A.A. group or member should ever, in such a way as to implicate A.A., express any opinion on outside controversial issues—particularly those of politics, alcohol reform, or sectarian religion. The Alcoholics Anonymous groups oppose no one. Concerning such matters they can express no views whatever.”

(our emphases)

Bill Wilson's argument as to the acceptability of the aforementioned prayer seems to rest on a type of logic with which we are entirely unfamiliar. Apparently, or so he argues, its widespread use somehow negates its origins. Indeed he even claims that the notion that it is a Christian prayer is therefore a “little farfetched”. We refer you to the following in this connection:

“The Lord's Prayer, also called the Our Father and the Pater Noster,[1] is a venerated Christian prayer that, according to the New Testament, was taught by Jesus to his disciples. Two forms of it are recorded in the New Testament: a longer form in the Gospel of Matthew[6:5–13] as part of the Sermon on the Mount, and a shorter form in the Gospel of Luke[11:1–4] as a response by Jesus to a request by "one of his disciples" to teach them "to pray as John taught his disciples". The prayer concludes with "deliver us from evil" in Matthew, and with "lead us not into temptation" in Luke. The first three of the seven petitions in Matthew address God; the other four are related to our needs and concerns. The liturgical form is the Matthean. Some Christians, particularly Protestants, conclude the prayer with a doxology, a later addendum appearing in some manuscripts of Matthew.”

(Source: Wikipedia entry – Lord's Prayer)

We would argue that Bill's assertion that the prayer is not of Christian origin is not only itself more than a “little farfetched” - it is utterly farcical! But he then goes on to compound his error by assuming belief in a divine being of some kind must somehow necessarily (and legitimately) find its expression solely in a Christian prayer ignoring altogether the fact that other (non-Christian) religions place belief in a Supreme Being at their centre but do not see fit to employ that self-same prayer. This is a form of liturgical 'centricity' which almost beggars belief in its arrogance. Moreover the argument that avoidance of the prayer has something to do with “defer[ring] to the feelings of our agnostic and atheist newcomers” is no more than a distraction (as well as somewhat insulting) as he seeks to place the blame on the latter for the prayer's omission. Bill concludes with the injunction that somehow the 'objectors' (ie. those who believe we should abide by our traditions rather than merely pay lip-service to them) will benefit greatly from being obliged to listen to a Christian prayer in a supposedly non-sectarian meeting, that this represents “a salutary exercise in tolerance at their [ie. AA members] stage of progress.” Presumably this principle would operate equally well in reverse ie. that the absence of the recital of a Christian prayer would serve as a “salutary exercise in tolerance* to those adherents of a religion which is after all only a minority sectarian belief system itself. Tolerance would seem to cut both ways!

Cheers

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous … and of all religions and NO religions everywhere!)